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Thread: Fishes of Burundi - Interview excerpt - Pondraised Tropheus

  1. #1
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    Fishes of Burundi - Interview excerpt - Pondraised Tropheus

    This is a exceprt from a interview Mireille Schreyen (Pierre Brichard's daughter)who operates the facility since her father's death. The interview is from March of 1999

    For many years, you started in the breeding cichlids in outdoor pools. What you fish reproduce (which breeds Tropheus example) and in what quantities?

    "De manière régulière nous reproduisons en continu une soixantaine d'espèces ou races différentes parmis lesquelles: 20 races de Tropheus(le Tropheus brabant indigène du Burundi n'étant pas reproduit, mais récolté dans le lac) en plus de cela nous reproduisons des Cyphotilapia, des Ophtalmotilapia, des Petrochromis et une douzaine d'espèces de poissons du Malawi. "

    Google Translation:
    On a regular basis we reproduce a continuous sixty different species or races among which: 20 breeds of Tropheus (Tropheus brabant the native of Burundi are not reproduced, but collected from the lake) on top of that we reproduce the Cyphotilapia, of Ophtalmotilapia, the Petrochromis and a dozen species of fish from Malawi.

    "Les Tropheus reproduits sont en vedette l'Orange de Bemba, le Kaiser Kiriza, le Moliro, le Kirshfleck, le Red Rainbow, le Papagay (Tropheus du groupe Rainbow, venant du sud de la Tanzanie. Nous avons acheté nos reproducteurs à un importateur Allemand voici quelques années), Duboisi d'Uvira, le Murago, en plus de cela, Karamba, Kipili, Kongole, Moba, Zongwe, Kavala, Canary Cheek, Green (vient de la péninsule de l'Ubwari, face Est, il cohabite avec le Tropheus Karamba depuis Muzimu jusqu'a Karamba. Et, phénomène assez rare, il existe dans le lac des Karamba et des Green pur,mais également des hybrides des deux, ce qui donne un Tropheus assez peu stable dans ses colorations, certains très beau pratiquement rayés vert et rouge.Les reproducteurs ont été récolté par nous même), Kanyosha, Mwerazi, Yellow de Mboko et Lupota."

    Google Translation:
    The Tropheus are reproduced featured the Orange Bemba, the Kaiser Kiriza, the Moliro, the Kirshfleck(Cherry Spot), Red Rainbow, the Papagay (Rainbow Tropheus group, from southern Tanzania. We bought our breeding a German importer few years ago), Dubois Uvira, the Murago, in addition to that, Karamba, Kipili, Kongola, Moba, Zongwe, Kavala, Canary Cheek, Green (just the Ubwari peninsula, facing east, it coexists with Tropheus from the Karamba Karamba Muzimu up. And rare phenomenon, it exists in Lake Karamba Green and Clean, but also hybrids of both, giving a little Tropheus fairly stable in its coloring, some very fine almost striped green and rouge.Les breeders were raised by us), Kanyosha Mwerazi, Yellow Mboko, and Lupota.

    The full interview link:
    http://tanganyika-cichlids.com/fishesof.htm
    375G Empty
    300G Petrochromis Orthognathus Tri-Color and Tropheus Duboisi & Rutunga & Katoto
    300G Petrochromis Trewavasae and Tropheus mpimbwe Red Cheek
    180G Tropheus Ikola
    180G Tropheus annectens Kekese
    150G Petrochromis Moshi
    150G Tropheus brichardi Ujiji

  2. #2
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    Couple of things in this interview that strike me...

    1. The Rutunga (brabant) Red Saddles are wild caught all the other Tropheus are pondraised or from other importers breeding stocks. Not sure if this means the adults Rutunga are wild caught, and then the fry are pondraised, or if the rutunga fry are wildcaught. Interesting to know this though...

    2. The open admission to making hybrid Tropheus to enhance color.

    This statement really bothers me.

    Golden Bemba, Stardust Bemba, Super Red Karamba, Golden Kiriza, Albino Kipili are just a few that I am aware of.

    In the last 10 years, Kiriza, which used to be pure yellow, now has splashes of red in it. Bemba's that used to be pure red, now have some yellow in them. Wonder where the culls went while they were developing thier hybrid colonies and bloodlines? Well there you go...there's your answer in my opinion...
    Last edited by geoff_tropheus; 12-02-2009 at 12:56 PM. Reason: spelling
    375G Empty
    300G Petrochromis Orthognathus Tri-Color and Tropheus Duboisi & Rutunga & Katoto
    300G Petrochromis Trewavasae and Tropheus mpimbwe Red Cheek
    180G Tropheus Ikola
    180G Tropheus annectens Kekese
    150G Petrochromis Moshi
    150G Tropheus brichardi Ujiji

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    I don't think it's a big secret that fishes of burundi have pond raised tropheus. Even still, people on other tropheus forums think it's not cost effective and there is no such thing.

    What's more interesting to me is the long term effects to the gene pool of these fishes. I also wonder if importers are buying these fishes as pond raised fishes and selling them off as WC. I understand the latter issue may never be answer.
    I ate my fish that died.

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    gotticgs's Avatar
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    man... save about 15gs and go on vacation there and get the info first hand and take lots of pictures.....
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    It has been well known for years that Toby Veal "Rift Valley Tropicals" and the Brichard Family "Burundi Farms" has been pondraising many tanganyikan fishes.

    What bothers me is exaclty what Thai has said, so many importers buy the pondraised fish and call them F1 or even wildcaught when they are nothing at all like that.

    I also think a number of them, are just ignorant to the facts, and say, "Oh...yeah this fish came from Africa, therefore its wild caught."
    375G Empty
    300G Petrochromis Orthognathus Tri-Color and Tropheus Duboisi & Rutunga & Katoto
    300G Petrochromis Trewavasae and Tropheus mpimbwe Red Cheek
    180G Tropheus Ikola
    180G Tropheus annectens Kekese
    150G Petrochromis Moshi
    150G Tropheus brichardi Ujiji

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    Quote Originally Posted by myjohnson View Post
    I don't think it's a big secret that fishes of burundi have pond raised tropheus. Even still, people on other tropheus forums think it's not cost effective and there is no such thing.

    What's more interesting to me is the long term effects to the gene pool of these fishes. I also wonder if importers are buying these fishes as pond raised fishes and selling them off as WC. I understand the latter issue may never be answer.
    I'm beginning to think it is very cost effective to dump a bunch of fish into a pond built on dirtcheap land and tended to by dirt cheap labor. There are no child labour laws afterall, nor insurance, income tax or 401K to match. Most of those folks over there make the equivalent to 1 Amercian dollar a week. The volume with which they deal seems like it will ensure a profit.

    I wonder, like you Thai, how varied and therefore strong the genetic pool is for the PR's. I mean really...do they get all of the fry out of the pond, do they strip the females and grow out the fry or what? The genetic variation sounds static to me. How often do they replenish the breeders with new bloodlines or do they just allow some of the fry to grow out?

    The hybridizing to "enhance" colour is alarming to me, too. I mean how cavalier of them to think they should tinker with mother nature... It wouldn't be a big deal if it were common knowledge, and people could chose between Brichard made or Nature made. For the amount of money most of us plunk down, and based on the frowned upon practise of allowing hybrid fry in our own colonies, I wonder what people would choose if they knew what they were buying? Just because people come from an illustrious family doesn't mean that what they're doing now wouldn't disgust the illustrious ancestor. I am not implying that they are doing anything disgusting, please note this. I am just saying that it doesn't pay to trust someone just because they share genes with a person who was greatly respected and ground breaking to a particular field. My motto "Question Authority" bleeds into all people, not just the cops and the government. LOL

    I think we would be quite naive to believe that every fish we buy that is touted as WC actually IS WC. I am not implying bald face deception on every dealer's part, or every importer's part, but I know human nature, and I know that avarice will win the day for most people and they will tell you whatever you want to hear in order to make the sale.

    I look forward to reading everyone's ideas! This will be very interesting...

    All the best,
    Jenney.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gotticgs View Post
    man... save about 15gs and go on vacation there and get the info first hand and take lots of pictures.....
    More doable then most think. Mark Young and those guys from Oz tried to set up a vacation trip where they would collect tropheus and Mark would ship it back to Oz for them. It never happen cause Mark couldn't get the lience need to get the fishes into Oz.

    I'll ask Mark if he could do something like this for us, if you guys are for real about going.
    I ate my fish that died.

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    There are lots of problems in Africa with infrastructure. In the cichlid forum there is a like 100 page thread from Mark where he has posted all kinds of pictures and made comments about what he has seen lakeside. One of his biggest complaints was that no one really had the infrastructure to support large breeding facilities. He did say that some might be raising some variants, but not all of them.

    There is even a Konnings article where he writes that Toby Veal and he went and collected over 600 Maswa for a breeding operation to be setup on one trip alone. So there is no doubt that certain variants are pond raised over there and I am sure there has been made more than one trip for other more popular variants.

    During the huge fuel crunch it was almost impossible to get fuel into Zambia where they were at without paying large inflated prices. There is barely even dirt roads to some places along the lake, little else stable electrical power. In the more largely poplulated areas like Bujumbura, Kigoma, and such there are facilities for this.

    One of my personal complaints on the pondraised fish is exactly what Jenney has stated about bloodlines and making sure that quality fish is preserved and not all these mutants. Not to mention what culls from their hybrid program were properly disposed and culled out.

    Sad, as it is, ... its economics and no loss of respect for what is natural. Some of the most beautiful things in life are what is simply pure and natural.
    375G Empty
    300G Petrochromis Orthognathus Tri-Color and Tropheus Duboisi & Rutunga & Katoto
    300G Petrochromis Trewavasae and Tropheus mpimbwe Red Cheek
    180G Tropheus Ikola
    180G Tropheus annectens Kekese
    150G Petrochromis Moshi
    150G Tropheus brichardi Ujiji

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    Quote Originally Posted by gotticgs View Post
    man... save about 15gs and go on vacation there and get the info first hand and take lots of pictures.....
    Who wants to come with me? I would love to do a trip and they are only about 5K. Of course I want to get scuba certified first so I can really enjoy it.
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    5k WHAT?
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    150 Tropheus Moorii "Murago" Link

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