Breeder Awards Points

[Totenkampf]

i can volunteer to be a librarian for this once we get a schedule down. it will give me a chance to make a spreadsheet and i <3 ms excel.

[danielp]

I like it I'm in.

Have some stuff that should start breeding soon and have a few other ideas.

Haven't done the breeding thing in a long time.

[mnemenoi]

Worked on some rough ideas and will shoot it over to the GHAC officials for perusal

[Fancyfish]

how about a point system based on some criteria, that add up to a total score per brood. everything would be on a scale of 1-10 that add up to 50pts per batch.

example.

Species rarity- 5/10
breeding difficulty - 9/10
size of clutch (how many babies) - 5/10
grade/quality - 7/10
__________? - 10/10

total score = 36 pts for this set of babies

Maybe add points for documentation? Writing an article, pictures, movie. Does your club have a news letter or website that you could post documentation on breeding/raising at?

[Totenkampf]

i think documentation is a must. this would include nice DIY posts with pictures, species profiles on this site, care guides for live plants and animals, etc.

[mnemenoi]

Ghac has a website, but mostly utilize the box for their normal club stuff if I am correct.

[armthehomeless]

Ghac has a website, but mostly utilize the box for their normal club stuff if I am correct.

You are indeed correct.

[MURRAY]

Fish only sir

Does breeding humans count? Or is it fish only?

[TonyO]

Sorry everyone, I was gone a while and forgot about this thread completely. . .

Won't this program make breeders cycle through species they hold in their tanks? That kinda discourages folks who keep the same fish for years from entering the program.

That was one of my earlier concerns. It not only discourages those who keep species for a long time, but those without the time and space to maintain and rotate numerous species and aquariums. Additionally, I have made the observation that those that keep species solely for the breeding points tend to keep them until they're just mature and large enough to get fry from them, then dump them off. While that is every individual's choice, for me, I found it sad to see these spectacular species get dumped off by the most experienced hobbyists before reaching their awesome potential. I have a story about a younger member of the former club trying to sell a spectacular Fossorochromis rostratus male that saddens me.

Also, a certain number of fry should live to a certain ago before being counted.

to keep people breeding the same species you could

Awards points for each group of fry.

then bonus points for difficulty and how rare they are.

So if you are breeding something like convicts you get points for the fry but less bonus points for difficulty and rarity. But since they breed like rabbits you get points for each batch of fry...

If you are breeding something that is harder to breed you get more points so it would all work out in the end.

I offer one suggestion and have one question. . .

Suggestion: Rather than each batch of fry, perhaps an additional point per 5 spawns, with the difficulty factored in after 5 spawns are reached. I would say rewarding longevity (one could do it with the same pair or with individuals raised from subsequent batches of fry, and it would be ok to mix in new individuals for diversity rather than continued inbreeding) is a good thing.

Question: Rarity and difficulty based on what? Something rare in June 2012 may not be rare in October 2012. Also, some species are perpetually difficult or may never get a captive spawning but many become easier over time. Is there a sliding scale on these factors? It seems trivial, but people get legitimately upset over things like this. "Why does that person get the same rarity points when I'm the person that first brought them in and they are using fry that originated with my group three generations ago?" I always hear, "That won't happen with us," and then it invariably happens.

As I've stated, I do believe there has to be some sharing of knowledge and/or sharing of species, as well, to earn points. Writing a quality article to disseminate the information before you can move to the next rank and until you do that, you can't accrue any more points?

Having said that, I'd be happy to tackle at least part of a list (SA and CA cichlids is where I've got the most experience here), and then I would suggest shuffling it to a few other hobbyists experienced in that area. I do think it would require meetings in person initially, though, and I'm happy to do that, too, provided my work schedule isn't too gnarly (weekday evenings tend to be tough right now). Tim, feel free to PM me or call me, if you want to talk about it. We can talk about it at the meeting, too, if you'd prefer. This could end up being a lot of work to get running initially, but do the legwork first, and it works out better than doing it on the fly.

I know I seem to have a lot to say on this, and I do, but programs like this that are run shabbily do actually detract from the quality of the club, and I happen to have a knack for seeing where problems are going to pop up.

[armthehomeless]

From mnemenoi:

Just a rough idea and a starting point, let me know what you think and I'd be happy to try tweaking it wherever anyone thinks needs it

GHAC Breeder Award Points
Purpose - The intent of this system is to recognize localbreeders/cultivators/horticulturists whowork on breeding/propagating fish/inverts/plants locally in their ownaquariums. Local breeders can ease the need for wild caught species andimportation and grant access to many species that younger hobbyists can onlydream of acquiring. Many show a deep connection and fondness for their chargesand this culminates in the production of offspring. This system is meant forthose that wish to be involved and enjoy the challenge this presents, it is notmeant to be unpleasant or frustrating. Everyone is welcome to participate atyour own comfort level. This is a points based system and is subject to the inherentflaws that any system truly has.
Special Focus – We will point out that special focus is madein regards to species that are threatened or extinct in the wild. While theymay be just as easily bred as another, we feel that emphasis should be made forspecies at risk and if these silly points can thank them for keeping it aliveit is a small thing indeed. Another focus we would like to draw is species thatare in higher demand, but rarely ever propagated in the local area. Many folkhave a difficult time placing fish in homes and these species are often soughtafter, thus satisfying a demand.

Groupings – We like the idea of having many groups torepresent the many aspects of the hobby and be very inclusive to all. Groups thatwe have thought about and would like to see are
Freshwater Fish
Saltwater Fish
Brackish Fish
Freshwater Invertebrates
Saltwater Invertebrates
Horticulture (Aquatic Plant Propagation and Flowering)
Amphibians
Reptiles
Group Judges – Would be selected from the local authoritiesor knowledgeable keepers to award points based upon our system. They also canannually alter the awards points in their respective categories due to changesand trends in their respective area of husbandry.
Points – 1^st spawning/propagation in their respective group (5pts)
Species (1-5pts) based upon the judges and opinions of thedeciding group officials. Rarity, difficulty, and contributing factors mightall be taken into account. Each group will maintain a list of families and species, but not everything will be contained in said list.
Brood Care (1-3pts) This entails how the offspring were taken care ofand the difficulty of raising them. It is not based upon brood size (somespecies are quite prolific, while others are not) but upon success raisingthem.
Report (1-5pts) A small write up concerning the entire processto be posted up for others to read. Even a secondary or tertiary report isgreat. Just because something worked for A does not mean it will work the samefor everyone and the more knowledge the better. The points will be awardedbased upon the report and its details and judges opinion. Photography willcertainly be taken into account at this step, but not everyone has a macro lensand we understand.
Donation (1-3pts) GHAC relies upon membership and donationsto fund events and those who decide to donate some of their propagates can becertain that their efforts are appreciated and it perpetuates a young andvibrant group that is always expanding and introducing younger hobbyists with opportunitiesto possess acquisitions they could only dream about .

Awards – There are certainly titles that go with any programsuch as this and this is just what we have thought up. Each group will likely havetheir own ‘branding’ on these.
50pts – Breeder
250pts – Intermediate Breeder
500pts – Expert Breeder
1000pts. – Master Breeder

Group Dynamics – Each group will of course determine theirown system and will try and keep them at par with the others in the BAPS(Breeder Award Point System). I realize that not all groups will work the same and such is the nature of a system like this, it is just for fun and we will try our best to do it fairly.

(This is simply a rough draft of my own ideas and likely to change once everything is codified and edited, just trying to help and glad to assist in getting this idea off the ground.)

[Sea-agg09]

I like the idea of having groups to base point scales on. Are you going to set groups within fresh/salt etc ? It's going to make a bunch of groups but it might be the only way to be fair. Of course that may be opening up a giant can of worms.

[armthehomeless]

Re: Breeder Awards Points

I like the idea of having groups to base point scales on. Are you going to set groups within fresh/salt etc ? It's going to make a bunch of groups but it might be the only way to be fair. Of course that may be opening up a giant can of worms.

Worms will be involved however it gets dealt with. Yes.... groups within groups.