HAS Auction

[szidlon]

Re: HAS Auction

Not sure what the policy is on dead fish and I'm not one to back out of my auction obligations so I'm unfamiliar with that as well.  I do know people do walk out and not honor their bids for various reasons of their own.  You also have the folks who arrive with $100 and lose track of their bids and don't have enough to pay at checkout without an alternate means of payment.  

There is not a way I can think of to pay sellers, or credit sellers until all of the buyers have checked out and paid.  If a buyer backs out and the seller has already been paid or credited, what is the solution to that particular dilemma.

As for the 25% I'm sure at some point it was voted on.  Other auctions in different venues charge up to 20% sellers fee PLUS up to $15% is added to the buyers total due as a premium.  So, that being said HAS is well within normal rates on their percentage.  If you would like to suggest changing the percentage schedule by lowering the sellers fee and adding a buyers fee, by all means, feel free to present your ideas to the Board.

Sellers do not get paid the sales tax.  HAS remits the sales tax to the proper tax collecting authorities.

BTW, before you ask, I am not on the Board, just a member of HAS like so many others.

[PhishPhreek]

Re: HAS Auction


What say we all email in our sellers sheet on an excell spreadsheet.
We enter all the data for a bidders card with a debit link to our bank account.
The computer prompts the auctioneer with data from the sellers sheet and he enters the price and buyer#.
At checkout the computer spits out a list of the buyers purchaeses and when approved with a pin # debits the buyers account.
When the last buyer is checked out the computer spits out a sellers summery and deposits the money in each sellers acount less sales tax, property tax, income tax, stadium tax, hotel tax........

no, I'm not ready for that yet!

[Hanson77]

Re: HAS Auction

OK so what does happen if someone can't pay for an auction item that they won and now cannot pay for?  Where does that money come from?  

I guess we could debate this for days but since I don't know all the inner workings of the other parts of the auction.....I'll just let it go and chalk it up to an experience and a lesson learned.

No big deal.  All just ideas.

Thanks again.

[szidlon]

Re: HAS Auction

What say we all email in our sellers sheed on an excell spreadsheet.
We enter all the data for a bidders card with a debit link to our bank account.
The computer prompts the auctioneer with data from the sellers sheet and he enters the price and buyer#.
At checkout the computer spits out a list of the buyers purchaeses and when approved with a pin # debits the buyers account.
When the last buyer is checked out the computer spits out a sellers summery and deposits the money in each sellers acount less sales tax, property tax, income tax, stadium tax, hotel tax........

no, I'm not ready for that yet!

Oh my, are we in the year 2929 already  8O

I have been to auctions where the bidders info was entered into a system and at the end of the auction, or during, depending on the auction software used,  sorted and invoice pages printed.  The bidders info was entered by passing a completed sheet to the data entry person as soon as the sheet was completely filled out.  Hopefully, the sheet is legible enough to provide accurate information.  I would think someone in HAS has a database background and could whip out a simple data entry program for bidder information.  I will say the HAS auctions go much more smoothly than most I have been to.

[Zulaab]

Re: HAS Auction

Yeah its hard to want to change something that works well.  The only thing that could be cool by having an online version of the system is to allow sellers to enter their own information into the system and then it spits out a sellers number, and fish number.  There will be one sellers number per person and then a fish number for each type of fish you are selling.
Then the morning when you are bagging your fish up you write on the bag something like "E-201" Sellers number E standing for it was done electronic and not manually at the auction, Then you write F-206, which in the system is listed as your "Cardinal Red Neon fish, with yellow racing stripes" and then when the auctioneer talks about the fish he looks up what F-206 is, and tells everyone he is selling xx number of "Cardinal Red Neon fish, with yellow racing stripes" and more importantly, people at their own home usually will not be in a rush while writing things down on their computer, the auctioneer can read typed up information (compare this with the Doctors handwriting, I am sure 50% of the hand written cards have to look like).
When checking in, the seller will check in E-201, and bags F-206, F-207, F-208 etc.. this way the auctioneer can also gauge before the auction how many bags they are looking at etc...
Just a thought...  those who don't show up, are not going to check in therefore none of the auction peoples time are lost and a late comer can still log a fish in when they show up especially if you put a couple of computers at the auction for them to log in locally to the database and enter their items there.
Again this is my 1.5 pennies, quarters and nickels.

[szidlon]

Re: HAS Auction

All these good ideas should be presented at an HAS meeting,( including Bob's  8) ).  Technology is changing daily and becoming more and more user friendly.  Actually, for just a buyers log a simple excel sheet could be designed using either filters or v lookup.  Filter, total and print two copies per bidder, one for the bidder one for HAS.  May sound overly simple, but sometimes simple is the best idea.  Of course then you have the inevitable pc meltdowns, jammed printers and all the other great stuff that goes along with computers  :evil:

It wouldn't have to be anything fancy.  The Art Car Parade has a simple excel program they use for tabulating votes and other miscellaneous information.  I know it works, I'm their volunteer vote tabulator  :wink: .

[Hanson77]

Re: HAS Auction

A simple Access database could handle this with no problem.  You could build a simple frontend with a few simple functions like adding sellers, bidders, items, adding final prices, with a few simple queries to tabulate a seller or buyer's totals at the end of the auction or the next day for that matter.  You could still keep all of the manual back-up data for reconcilliation should you run into a problem.

[Cameo]

Re: HAS Auction

My profession is as a DBA and HAS does have a full-scale db. But cannot get the seller info in with the desc's in a timely manner before the auction. So there are no records to attach bidders info to. This is done after the auction. Some clubs do not keep the desc of the item, just a number that is meaningless.
Zulaab - I've thought that w/b really cool to have the seller's enter their items into a computer at the place. But after investigating, there are not enough resources or time for that - again the 700 item scenario.
PhishPhreek - LOVE your idea!  :)
Hanson77 - I'm a little concerned. Did I understand you to say you walked around w/ your Seller's sheet all day, keeping track of the amounts? Hopefully, I totally misunderstood.
szidlon - As to broken items, yes, if you've bought an item and the sacker breaks it/kills it, you, of course, will not have to pay for it.
All the other fish auctions I know of keep 25% of the sale price, using the word "keep" very loosely.

[Hanson77]

Re: HAS Auction

No....you understood it correctly.  I was under the impression that I was supposed to from the information that I got when I arrived that morning with my fish.  I was told to write down all my items and turn it in at the end of the auction......I thought it was strange too.  Apparently from the reaction I got when I checked out, that's not quite what was supposed to happen and apparently I was either misinformed or simply misunderstood.

[Zulaab]

Re: HAS Auction

Zulaab - I've thought that w/b really cool to have the seller's enter their items into a computer at the place. But after investigating, there are not enough resources or time for that - again the 700 item scenario.

Well the intention was for the seller to create a profile in the system (on the web) upto say 7 days before the sale.  Most people know with a pretty good idea what they are bringing to the auction within a day or two of the sale.  At this point they log into the system, create a seller ID and then add all the fish they want to sell under that ID.  Then at the auction when they bring in all the bags of fish and other items, they say "online sellerID number so and so, I am here and I brought with me xx bags of fish and other stuff.  The assistant at the Auction checks each item in, and any ID not used or others who entered in "Bogus" information is never brought up in the auction because they never checked in.   Only items checked in are ever considered.
The main thing I wanted as for the seller to write as much information down online before coming to the Auction this way the assistants would have the least amount of work writing up information about the items etc...

Again just my nickels, dime and pennies worth..

[fishysue]

Re: HAS Auction

My own two cents for what it is worth:    

1.  TAKO uses a system very similar to what is being proposed here.  But sellers are requested to send in lists of their items well before the auction.  These lists are compiled, labels are produced and when the seller checks in, they are handled the labels for the items.  When items are auctioned,  they are handed to the winning bidder. Someone enters the items auctioned, amount and buyer number, into a program.  At check out at the end of the auction, if you are both buyer and seller,  the two are combined in a printout, and you pay the difference, by cash or check.  TAKO's percentage on sales is 40%.

Couple of Caveats. TAKO's auctions while not small don't handle 700+ items, 30+sellers and 80+buyers.  Someone spends a lot of time putting the item label list together,  making sure it is correct (phone calls or emails to sellers?) and properly itemized and printed out.  This makes it easier on the seller but harder on the club members.  It also makes it a lot harder to add or change items.  And what do you do with the seller who walks in with lots of items at the last minute.  What HAS really needs is volunteers to do these jobs and I want to thank everyone who did volunteer by the way.  Then there is still the issue of handling checks and hoping they clear properly.

On the HAS bidder card, there are places to record the items you have won.  This is for the convenience of the bidder.  Several people had questions about this at the auction and just wanted to make that clear.

[marauder_77868]

Re: HAS Auction

We have talked over the computer idea. It's not a money issue. The first problem currently is and has been number of volunteers. You see, you have to have someone to sit and key in all the information. But you still have to have someone write it all manually. If the computer were to crash and you didn't have that backup, you'd have a tremendous problem. Also, we like to be able to send the sellers a list of what they sold and for how much...not just a list of item numbers and prices. Additionally, we've found that it's pretty much impossible to get people to fill out seller sheets ahead of time and contrary to what you might think, most of the sellers don't decide for sure until they are actually bagging the fish. I would love to have people type the seller sheets ahead of time, if for no other reason than handwriting issues. Also, mistakes are made that are often not caught until checkout. Sellers scratch items. I've seen sellers skip numbers. (And that I've never gotten...I thought the whole sequential number thing was pretty much a given). Adding a computer wouldn't really be feasible unless we get a larger,more active volunteer group (no slight intended to our current volunteers-we love you all!) We are always open to ideas. But we've already discussed each and every one of these ideas at regular and board meetings. I would be happy to schedule a meeting just to discuss auction issues, if people would like. Insofar as cost and money...feel free to PM me and we can discuss that. But, suffice to say, there are a whole host of costs that go with each and every auction. We mail out hundreds of notices, newspaper ads, hall rental, silent auction items, paper, ink, toner, bidder cards, forms, etc. It is because we are willing to front all of these costs that the auctions have become so large. Insofar as checks, here's an example: I just received my check from the HCCC auction which occurred on June 16th in the mail today. They use precisely the type of system that is being proposed....I think we're doing ok.

[wvgdiscus]

Re: HAS Auction

Ok my 2 cents.

DON'T FIX IT IF IT IS NOT BROKEN.

I have found out I get to view things better & I know what is about to be auctioned off better when I volunteer.

[Anonapersona]

Re: HAS Auction

Well, at this point I'm withdrawing my suggestion....

I typically don't know until that very morning if in fact I am going to go to the auction. That morning, I may or may not have bagged and tagged plants and equipment. I typically don't have fish bags (or they are used and leaking) so the fish I bring will depend on what gets bagged that morning. Were it required that I do this in advance, it probably wouldn't happen at all. Maybe other people are disciplined enough to get it all done early.

Instead, I'll just help at the desks when I am there. (It helps me to spend less that way!!)

[PhishPhreek]

Re: HAS Auction

Oh my, are we in the year 1999 already  8O

Yes, that level of software has been available for more than 10 years............ Big Brother is watching you!