Question: Should Tropheus/Petrochromis males be culled???

[newb]

Personally, I think that only in situations where aggression is extremely high should males be culled. I have never culled males and I have bred every species I have kept. Open to hear all thoughts and view points.

[ssrprelude]

How many true WC colonies have you brought in and breed? Just a question.

[ssrprelude]

I think both methods have their benefits. 1. By leaving everyone in there, you let nature take its course. Weed out the weak. 2. When you take out the extra males, aggression decreases tremendously. One dominate male and all the women he can handle. That all constitutes to a happy colony with tons of fry.

[newb]

The Chimba are WC. The Macro are WC. The Katoto were WC. The Murago are WC and are currently holding...not sure if the Dubs were WC or not(they came from two different sources). All fish produced.

[newb]

I think it is definately proven that by culling you can achieve a happy, stable colony of fish...True. But what about the other males...Most end up as a single petro in a tank and can never be re-introduced into a colony of its own species. My personal experience with this is that the culled males get very dominant in the tank they go to and do not do well when introducing others of its kind to the tank. I like the mindset that ALL aquariums are prisons for fish and that we as keepers should put tons of attention and care into the tank to provide a stable environment. There are enough techniques out there to break up aggression that I think most will be able to survive if left together.

[myjohnson]

Depends on the total number.

If you got a lot....killing males will increase breeding like nobodies' business.

[txfront]

I sold off 8 of my ten male Trews and the spawning dropped to almost nothing. Could be a coincidence but I have an amazing ratio of 2m 21f now and zero spawning. Not sure if they just need time to get readjusted but i guess time will tell.

[myjohnson]

The Chimba are WC. The Macro are WC. The Katoto were WC. The Murago are WC and are currently holding...not sure if the Dubs were WC or not(they came from two different sources). All fish produced.

I forget but all these WC fishes were acclimated by someone else already right?

I only remember the katoto and mugrao being freshly WC.

Not trying to call you out or anything....just checking to see if I'm losing my mind or not.

[newb]

true...the others were acclimated by others. but I dont see how that matters...they didnt cull males either??? the Macro killed themselves off to the ratio they are now up in CS, but they were pretty much just put out in the garage and fed every once in a while. The Chimba came from Scott(oldgeezer) not sure where he got them, and some came from Willie who got them from Alex at Ultimate. Neither culled any to my knowledge.

[newb]

bout to leave to watch a movie...I had better have some more viewpoints to read when i get home!!! try to stay somewhat on topic.

[geoff_tropheus]

I think its a bad idea to cull out males. I think the fish are better off as a whole group if you can get them to stabilize.

I have only brought in 2 WC groups of Petro's and 1 F1 colony that grew up together, and I never culled males, I only took out the ones that got the tar beat out of them. I have been successfull on a couple tries and had them re-introduced..sometimes it took several tries but mostly worked.

Trophs is a different strorey, and I dont want get off topic.

With the Petro's the Orthoganthus killed themselves off until they got to a group of 9 fish. I think originally there were 12 of them that Mike brought in. Then Jolley had them for 2 years at 9 fish no problems, but no holding to term females. Then I get them and they kill one, then I sold off all the Red Rainbows and they killed another one while there was only 8 of them in the entire 10ft of aquarium. I knew better, but I was experiementing.

Then for some reason they killed the largest female that was always holding but never to term just a month or more ago.

The Trew's were in 5-trio's and then I put 3 extra females in this mix, and 1 older male. In three years having this tank, the largest female died in the begining, 1 male was killed, and 1 male was beatdown and he lives with the IKola now. I have not tried to re-introduce him yet. So there are now 16 of them, 4+1(ikola) males and 11 females. It took 2 years to get them to spawning, and have produced about 25 fry so far. Generally I have 1-3 females holding most of the time, but I do not strip fishes so many get eaten or mauled in the power heads.

The Famula were a group of 21 fry. Once they reached 4"+ on the males they started to breed for me, and I sold them to Peter. I believe there ratio was about 1:1 in that group but I never sexed them. The famula types are the most tropheus like petro, with a higher degree of colonization/group mentalities so they did really well.

Many of the other types of Petro's are more single like in nature so it can be really hard to get them to group up.

The most important thing to me is that if culling them ends up saving their lives, then that is what is needed. I think for the best of all the fishes though, you should try your best to get them to group bond and let them work it out.

[fshfrk]

Trew's are more troph like so let's get back to petro's. My poly group of 17 rejected one male at a time till there was 2 left. So one male on each end. The 10 females had a 8" long pc of water to swim in. If they crossed the line a male blasted them. I took out the #2 male and breeding sky rocketed. I currentley have 2 spare males. I have 9 out of 10 females packing now. But I don't think these fish were ever one happy family.. They were collected over a big area and probably never saw each other. If I leave them in the tank and they get killed is that ethical? I hope troph keepers will take my free males for your colonys because I can only keep 2 spare males on this next order. Besides they will make them trophs walk the line. No doubt theres going to a bunch of petros looking for homes in 2 months. Anyone have some 40gals for cheap?

[mark razmandi]

Trew's are more troph like so let's get back to petro's. My poly group of 17 rejected one male at a time till there was 2 left. So one male on each end. The 10 females had a 8" long pc of water to swim in. If they crossed the line a male blasted them. I took out the #2 male and breeding sky rocketed. I currentley have 2 spare males. I have 9 out of 10 females packing now. But I don't think these fish were ever one happy family.. They were collected over a big area and probably never saw each other. If I leave them in the tank and they get killed is that ethical? I hope troph keepers will take my free males for your colonys because I can only keep 2 spare males on this next order. Besides they will make them trophs walk the line. No doubt theres going to a bunch of petros looking for homes in 2 months. Anyone have some 40gals for cheap?

im selling my 38g soon

[Gene D]

I believe we almost have a responsibilty to remove them. In the wild these fish chase off unwanted males from their territory, in an aquarium this is not an option. This leaves only two possiblities A) the colony kills off the surplus or B) the owner removes them and affords them the opportunity of life elsewhere. To me removal seems more humane if not more natural.

As well I don't believe that all fish collected and shipped are necessarily a family or colony. It is possible the fish were collected over a period of several days/dives possibly from acres apart. It is entirely possible that the first time any of these fish met was in a collecters conditioning pond/tank. If you think about it in human terms imagine someone rounding up your entire neighborhood and holding you in capitivity in a manufactured environment. Would you need everyone to sucessfully live? Aren't there a few neighbors you could really do without?

I think overall we have to create the best environment that we possibly can for the fish we essentially asked to have removed from thier natural habitat. If removing males minimizes aggression and creates a better environment so that the entire colony is happier that is what should be done.

[76dragon]

Why don't u guys give away or sell to petstores so the males don't have to die? Seems like a waste of good money to me