ARgh! I got Bloat - 300 Gallon - Trophs, Ectodus & Petro

[geoff_tropheus]

On Sunday I lost (1) Ectodus out of the blue.  Then I notice that there was a lot of food being left on the bottom of the tank on Monday, then again on Tuesday, and I lost another Ectodus.  So, last night after I got home from work, I got 2-Tropheus bloated, and about half the Petros are not eating.  All the Ectodus are eating good, the remaining Trophs are eating good except the 2-bloated ones, and the Petros are 50/50 eating very little to eating nothing.

I have tested the water every day and these are my readings..

pH 8.13-8.15
Temp. 77F
GH - 150 ppm (9.3dH)
KH - 300 ppm (16.7dh)
Nitrite - 0 ppm
Nitrate - Less than 20 ppm
Ammonia - 0 ppm

This is my plan Use my Clout Method.
Wednesday - 50% waterchange, treat 1 tablet per 20 gallons every 12 hours.  I am treating half doses because of the Ectodus. Normally I treat 1 per 10 gallons as directed

Thursday - Dose 1 per 20 gallons every 12hours
Friday - Dose 1 per 20 gallons every 12 hours
Saturday - 50% Waterchange, Dose 1 per 20 gallons every 12 hours
Sunday - 1 per 20 gallons every 12 hours
Monday - 1 per 20 gallons every 12 hours
Tuesday - 50% waterchange, add charcoal

I am hoping by Tuesday all is cured.

During this treatment I will only feed once a day, and feed only Aquarian Flake Food.

The entire time I have had the Petros they never really took to eating the foods I wanted them to eat, and I am a victim of breaking one of the cardinal rules.

Never force a new food without acclimation to it first.  I should have stuck to feeding HBH Graze and Super Soft Pellets, but I pushed the issue.

There is nothing wrong with the water, 50% waterchange every two weeks, I got AC 500, (2) FX5's, and (2) MaxJet 1200 powerheads on this tank.  The tank is decorated and been remaining a constant 76-78F the entire time.

The lights are on about 12 hours a day.

I cannot think of anything else.

Any comments greatly appreciated...

Geoff

[geoff_tropheus]

Re: ARgh! I got Bloat - 300 Gallon - Trophs, Ectodus & P

I also have added 1 tsp per 10 gallons of Epson Salt during this treatment.

[bethesdaboy]

Re: ARgh! I got Bloat - 300 Gallon - Trophs, Ectodus & P

Man.


1. Buy some darn pond clout.

2. 30% water change every other day during the clout regimen.

3. Stop using NLS.

[bethesdaboy]

Re: ARgh! I got Bloat - 300 Gallon - Trophs, Ectodus & P

The other option for those really hurting is the salt treatment in a bucket by themselves.

[CichlidFan]

Re: ARgh! I got Bloat - 300 Gallon - Trophs, Ectodus & P

The other option for those really hurting is the salt treatment in a bucket by themselves.

Elaborate please ?

CF

[eklikewhoa]

Re: ARgh! I got Bloat - 300 Gallon - Trophs, Ectodus & P

Maybe try keeping the temps higher on your tanks?

I have noticed through all the readings about bloat that temps were a bit low.....75-78...just something I have made note of while browsing through thousands and thousands of threads all over the net. But when you do this there is no room for slacking in water filtration/circulation.

Also, Navarro had found an article about anerobic pathogens that were found in canister filters on tanks that had low oxygen levels which basically boils down to problems waiting for you to slack just a tad bit before raising hell. I imagine in the big 300g you probably have a few dead spots and not utilizing the large surface area of water in which you could agitate to increase gas exchange, if you have powerheads and such pointed to the water surface it ripples like crazy but at the same time does not add too much current in the tank where the fish can't swim anymore.

Not to say that it's the only way but IMO this is where a wet/dry filter victors over other methods of filtration....the bio is huge and then there's every path of the wet/dry breaking up the water and exposing it to the air for maximum gas exchange. Like on any body of water there is pathogens and bacteria that stay dormant till they are awaken by whatever it may be and that usually gives you no chance to react fast enough especially if the immune system of the fish is already weakened...in your case by the move and the new diet.


Don't get me wrong I am not trying to tell you what you did is wrong cause by no means am I trying to do that since you are a much more seasoned hobbyist when it comes to Trophs but these are some of the things that sparked my curiosity when I got into this type of fish so I have googled my way through probably millions of articles on everything from auwfuchs to pathogens.


Another thing you might want to consider is the not so harsh Metrondizole treatment for the Ectodus. I brought home some Opthalmatilapia which were fed nothing but spirulina flakes which I totally forgot to get some so I myself had to force NLS on them and ...knock on wood...they have taken to it really well and actually look much healthier cause they were really thing when I got them.


I have a bottle and a half of Metro and I gave myjohnson a new bottle as well which I really doubt he's gonna need now and it's yours if you need it...just say the word.

[geoff_tropheus]

Re: ARgh! I got Bloat - 300 Gallon - Trophs, Ectodus & P

I completely agree, does JEhmco have Pond Clout?

The trophs were eating NLS without no problems for over a year.  I think what happened to them is the Petros quit eating, and the Trophs over-ate.

The Ectodus are eating really good, but something happened.  I guess they have a much weaker constitution that's why 2 have died since Sunday.

The Petros are not doing well.  3-4 pretty much stay secluded and definately not eating.

I am only going to feed Aquarian Flake with the 100% spirulina Mixed in for the next month or so, until I get things settled in.

Geoff

[eklikewhoa]

Re: ARgh! I got Bloat - 300 Gallon - Trophs, Ectodus & P

The other option for those really hurting is the salt treatment in a bucket by themselves.

Elaborate please ?

CF

Probably means catching the most effected out and doing a much more potent "bath" so that you don't have to dose the entire tank but dose at higher content in a smaller body of water.

[eklikewhoa]

Re: ARgh! I got Bloat - 300 Gallon - Trophs, Ectodus & P

So you just dump food in all at once?

[bethesdaboy]

Re: ARgh! I got Bloat - 300 Gallon - Trophs, Ectodus & P

To elaborate some:

Epsom salt is magnesium.
It wont cross over into the fish.
Get the hurting fish into a bucket bubbling like mad and dose them with your salt.
1tsp for a 5 gallon bucket is the way i go, may be too high for some.
Monitor your fish if you haven't don this before.
The salt will draw the pressure from the internal of fish and certainly help if you have a fat bloated fish.
This can be done when using most other meds but not all.
Metro is a waste of time IMO.

Geoff,
I have never ordered anything from Jehmco so I dont know about them.

[geoff_tropheus]

Re: ARgh! I got Bloat - 300 Gallon - Trophs, Ectodus & P

I plan to get the MAxJet upgrade kits on the 1200's to get 1600 gph flow.  Between the dual outputs of the FX5's and the MAxjets in the corner, they surface agitation is pretty strong, plus the outflow of the AC 500 on one side.

There could be some dead spots at the bottom but all my suctions are on every filter is on bottom.

I am concerned about the lack of bio-capaicty of the FX5 and am thinking of changing to Eheim or wetdry, which in a tank of this size, I really beleive it should have one.

I do not think I have done anything wrong other than break one cardinal rule, and that is feeding a different food to herbivores such as Trophs and Petros with long intenstinal tracts, than from what they were accustomed to coupled with a transfer to new aquarium.

Feeding Ventralis a protein rich food is nothing compared to Petros and Trophs.

[eklikewhoa]

Re: ARgh! I got Bloat - 300 Gallon - Trophs, Ectodus & P

IMO Metro is only a waste if you let the problem get too far into it....it worked wonders for those Moops I saved not too long ago.

[eklikewhoa]

Re: ARgh! I got Bloat - 300 Gallon - Trophs, Ectodus & P

They were O.Nasutas but similar.

Have you started treatment already?

[geoff_tropheus]

Re: ARgh! I got Bloat - 300 Gallon - Trophs, Ectodus & P

Quoc - I think I will add heaters to the tank and put the temperature to around 80F The food is dumped in, but in two different incriments about 10-15 minutes apart.

Mike, - When you say "your salt" are you talking Aquarium Salt, Epson Salt, or Tanganyikan Salt?

[geoff_tropheus]

Re: ARgh! I got Bloat - 300 Gallon - Trophs, Ectodus & P

I started treatment yesturday.  I had to make time for the waterchange and removing all the Chempure from the canisters.