Tropheus Bloat - Tropheus Dropsy

[geoff_tropheus]

I really would like to get this article translated. But I wanted to share this with a number of people.

As of late, what I have been seeing a number of times with my fish, and with others, is that Tropheus are getting all puffed out "pine cone-ing" like this and its not bloat because all the other fish in the Colony are eating fine as if nothing is wrong, its only ever 1 fish and I believe its Dropsy.

Seems like other people are experiencing the same thing.

If someone translates it please let me know what it says.

http://tropheus.idoo.com/articles.php?lng=fr&pg=98

[geoff_tropheus]

I have cured this about 50% of them.

What I do is I treat the main tank for 5 days, then I 75% water change the tank and remove the sick fish and put him in a 20L or a 10gallon.

Then I treat him there alone with CLOUT, or MARACYN 2. Sometimes I have had to treat 1 fish for 30 days before he finally swelled back down to normal body.

Then you got to keep him/her isolated for another 30-45 days because they are extremely week. I have even seen where within a week of being back in the main tank, they pine cone back out again.

I also barely even feed the guy while he is in this condition. I have seen them eat like all the others too while they are like this.

I am not sure if other fish, when they have Dropsy, will eat. I dont know.

One last thing, sometimes I have also seen them get secondary infections following a case of "Dropsy" so be prepared. From the scales being out and the meat exposed.

[ssrprelude]

I had an Annecten puff out like that a few weeks ago. I mean puffed out, her scales were off her body. Treated the whole tank with Clout and epson salt for a week. Did a water change and moved her to a 10g QT. Clout and epson salt again for a few more day until she swelled down. In total I fixed her in two weeks, today she is part of the crew, eating, schooling and active as ever. I guess I got lucky.

[imagirlgeek]

I had an Annecten puff out like that a few weeks ago. I mean puffed out, her scales were off her body. Treated the whole tank with Clout and epson salt for a week. Did a water change and moved her to a 10g QT. Clout and epson salt again for a few more day until she swelled down. In total I fixed her in two weeks, today she is part of the crew, eating, schooling and active as ever. I guess I got lucky.

+1

Had a Chaitika that puffed up like this last year. Treated with Clout and Epson. Only it took about 6 weeks (or longer) before the swelling went down. It was painful to watch. I didn't QT him though. Every time I've removed a troph for individual treatment, they die. I swear, I think they get depressed being alone. I just make sure they have a place they can hide so as not to get beat up while sick.

[geoff_tropheus]

+1
I agree it is not good for them to be alone for a long times. They usualy get depressed and then if it is a long time, they are not easy to integrate back.

But..it sure beats treating a 180 gallon tank a day for 1 fish, verses 1 fish in a 10 gallon. 18 pills vs 1 pill.

If you treat for 30 days..

that would be 540 pills vs. 30 pills for one fish..

[imagirlgeek]

True.

Hey, I'm getting you a translation of that article right now. It might be a little rough, but I'll post it here in a minute.

[supadave]

I had an Annecten puff out like that a few weeks ago. I mean puffed out, her scales were off her body. Treated the whole tank with Clout and epson salt for a week. Did a water change and moved her to a 10g QT. Clout and epson salt again for a few more day until she swelled down. In total I fixed her in two weeks, today she is part of the crew, eating, schooling and active as ever. I guess I got lucky.

+1

Had a Chaitika that puffed up like this last year. Treated with Clout and Epson. Only it took about 6 weeks (or longer) before the swelling went down. It was painful to watch. I didn't QT him though. Every time I've removed a troph for individual treatment, they die. I swear, I think they get depressed being alone. I just make sure they have a place they can hide so as not to get beat up while sick.

+2
I had this same thing happen to a Moop about a month ago. I did exactly the same as Ssrprelude and Girlgeek and I cured it. At first I thought I was doing something wrong because Clout didn't cure it in a couple days. But when I combined the treatment of Clout and Epsom salt, I began to see much improvement each day. Still the treatment took about two weeks.

[geoff_tropheus]

I can look back into my log book for exact numbers but...

I have had this happen to 9 Red Cheeks, 2 Lunangwa, 5 Katoto, 6 Rutunga, 2 Duboisi in the last 3 years. Prior to that, I never had Dropsy like this, I had them swell a little if they had bloat, but was always able to cure it in 3-7 days

Most of the Redcheeks it happened to them following IKE. In fact most of my cases were around that time.

I have never had it happen to any of my Petros, Ujiji, Ikola, or Annectens, or any other Tropheus variants I have kept.

[russ]

I have cured this about 50% of them.

What I do is I treat the main tank for 5 days, then I 75% water change the tank and remove the sick fish and put him in a 20L or a 10gallon.

Then I treat him there alone with CLOUT, or MARACYN 2. Sometimes I have had to treat 1 fish for 30 days before he finally swelled back down to normal body.

Then you got to keep him/her isolated for another 30-45 days because they are extremely week. I have even seen where within a week of being back in the main tank, they pine cone back out again.

I also barely even feed the guy while he is in this condition. I have seen them eat like all the others too while they are like this.

I am not sure if other fish, when they have Dropsy, will eat. I dont know.

One last thing, sometimes I have also seen them get secondary infections following a case of "Dropsy" so be prepared. From the scales being out and the meat exposed.

hey geoff,
do you treat your show tanks with clout?it turns the silicone an ugly blue dont it?it would make things a whole lot easier if we would not have to pull all the fish out and put in qt.we all respect your decision making regarding tropheus.

[cichlid1409]

translated.... IE8 has a translator built in.

[cichlid1409]

is no one else using epsom as a preventative i add 1 tblsp per 10g every water change....and have not had bloat except in newly introduced fish (i.e. straight from the lake) for the past year.

[ddaquaria]

Interesting read...

I have not had this issue, but I wonder what the commonality is between you all to experience this. First I thought water, but you are all not near each other - so it also is not location. But saying a lot occurred after Ike, it sounds like pollution that isn't being removed from the water by the city.

[geoff_tropheus]

What turns the silicone blue is the Malachite Green component. Clout is 45/45 Metrodiazonal and Malachite Green, and then about 10% of 3 other meds that have names mile long.

Malachite Green will not stain if your pH is high. The higher it is the least likely it will stain. When I say higher, I am talking like 8.4+, I learned this later on. I also perform a 50-75% waterchange every 3rd day when treating so it does not really have much a impact.

The new Oceanic Tanks come in black silicone anyway, and my large tanks are acrylic so no silicone. My older Oceanic tanks you can tell which I have treated and which I have not. I have blue backgrounds on my tanks so it really does not bother me one bit.

The most important thing to me is saving the fish anyway. I dont screw around, because I am worried about silicone, I get my fish cured as fast as possible so no fish die.

[geoff_tropheus]

My very first case of bloat was in 2001 when I got fish from Armke's that were wild caught and I mixed them in directly with my already established Wild/Tankraised mixed colony. Those fish brought something with them that litterally killed about 75% of the existing colony and not a one of the Armke Fish died in that tank. But fry/juvi's I got from Armke's all died within a week. I was treating those tanks for weeks using every med in the world I could find...until...

I found the Jessica Miller article on how to cure bloat in the Cichlid Room Companion Website. I spoke with her thru email and started the treatment she gave me. Within about 5 days every fish was eating, and I never lost a fish AGAIN.

I stuck with Jessica's plan all my other times, and never lost a fish.

I did not start losing fish except where I tired to do other methods, some worked (Parasite Clear 50/50 Prazi and Metro, or Pure Metro) some did not at all(list a mile long), and so I decided that I would never loose a fish and never use anything but CLOUT. I never have lost Tropheus or Petros, I did loose some Ectodus that last time in the 300 about 2 years ago, but never any trophs or Petros. I dont think the silver-sided fish do well with CLOUT, so you got to be careful with some catfishes, and any silver-sided fish when using CLOUT.

The only time I have lost fish, is when I get 1 out of the blue get like this case of "Dropsy" where even though I treat the tank for a week, he marginally gets better and I never see a problem with any other fish. So I take them out to a QT tank and end up curing them there about 50% of the time.

[imagirlgeek]

Oops. While I was cleaning up the translation, Cichlid1409 already posted a translation. Sorry for the double information.

Translation of that article.

Why do our Tropheus get infected with intestinal parasites, without one putting new fish in the same aquarium? In normal weather (without stress), our dear fish are born with a quantity from intestinal worms rather negligible and bearable for their body. They regularly eliminate them by pooing, so that they are not in excess, a little with the manner of the manufacture of our antibodies. It is enough with stress or not, that the multiplication of these intestinal worms is activated.

(Here, when I speak about birth, it corresponds more or less to the period between 12th and the 15th d' day; incubation when the larvae at the embryonic stage have already the head and the tail on the vitelline bag, and which start to catch all that can pass to range. The mother nourishing itself very little during incubation, the embryos benefit consequently occasion from the crumbs, and it is in this way that it infects her offspring by her contribution of her nibbling of algae and all which settles there including eggs and intestinal Hexamita larvae(in the poo), the fry also catch these, whipped by the filtration of the sand or substrate of the ground at the time of their first freeswim).

Unfortunately, our fish very often stress, following a bad maintenance, an unsuited food, being netted at the store or at our homes, changes of water parameters without an adequate acclimatization, internal and or external changes of scenery with the aquarium, an upheaval in the hierarchy of the group following the death of a member of the established group, a fish addition which should not be in company of our fish and which can stress our Tropheus, etc.

All these stresses play a very great part in the overdrive of the intestinal worms. When our fish are in a regularly renewed water and are nourished correctly, the risks of infections will be clearly decreased. On the other hand, if an unsuited food is given regularly, it is enough sometimes that change of water or aquarium so that an infection reappears and that the cycle of its harmful effects starts. For the food, it is imperatively necessary to conform to a food in spangles or granulated containing a high percentage of spirulina, but especially without proteins of warm-blooded animals. That generally not being written in the components of the spangles, it is preferable to get information from a serious salesman or directly at the firm producing these spangles or granules. We will not always receive answers and in this case, it is better not to distribute this food to our Tropheus. Most frequent and the best of the moment is "Tropical" , "Sera" , and "Osi" in that order. The disease of the "large ventre" and " Malawi Bloat" are very similar at least with regard to the symptoms. The disease of the large belly at our Tropheus, results in a swelling abdomen of the subject, so that the scales protrude from the body (see photographs).

Primary symptom: Swimming behavior of a subject with intestinal Hexamita, staying in the same spot and swaying, the tail and the fins generally clamped.

But attention, it is not always the protozoa which are the cause, it can be due to a bacterium such as Aeromonas, Gyrodactylus or Dactylogorus. Certain studies are in hand to find a remedy specific more adapted and effective with each one of them.

Second symptom: Refusal of the subject to eat and the poo becomes stringy and white.

Third symptom: The sick fish hangs out on the bottom or on the surface generally in a corner. Without signs of abdominal swelling and the subject dies rather quickly. It is critical to act when one discovers the first or second symptom, after that it becomes almost impossible to save the fish by treatment, because the infection is very contagious once the poo of an infected fish are on the bottom of the aquarium. Before beginning any treatment, it is necessary to do a water change from 30 to 50%.

The treatment:
- Flagyl®500 is a solution containing Metrodinazol, recommended for the infections by sensitive anaerobic germs, particularly of the bacteria type.
- Fluvermal®500 compressed or solution containing Flubendazole, recommended for an infection by one or more species of worms such as:
- Oxyurose
- Ascariasis
- Trichocéphalose
- Ankylostomiase

At the time of the primary symptom: Dissolve a tablet of Fluvermal®100 and mix it with 100 grams of food. One can also add fresh garlic juice to foods, this last being a recognized natural laxative.
At the time of the second and or third symptom: In this case, one should not absolutely not wait to treat. Flagyl®500 and or Ciproxine®500 at a rate of U compressed for 50 liters of water three consecutive days, and keep the lights off, because these products lose their effectiveness with the light. The fifth day, do a 50% water change. Repeat the treatment if necessary.

Constipation. Is shown also, but much later, by symptoms of spacing of the scales. In this case, it is necessary to try to make the fish ingest one or two drops of castor oil. To carry out this treatment, it is preferable to have a QT aquarium available, because the treated fish very often regurgitates some and this oil is spread out on the water surface and is very difficult to remove. Prefuran is very effective and useful when adding new fish, it removes the majority of the internal and external parasites. All these treatments will be accompanied by a salt addition, at a rate of a spoonful for 10 liters of water (+ 4 grams). That will help the organization with better assimilating the drugs employed. Salt plays the part of osmoregulator for our fresh water fish. The osmoregulation is the process which controls the quantity of fluids and of salts in the body which is composed for the greatest majority of water. When the fish urinates, it eliminates part of salt present in its body and when it drinks, recovers missing salt. If there is no salt addition, the fish will have an additional stress. Salt allows a osmoregulation when the fish undergoes stress: indeed the stress causing a loss of salts present in their body, a dangerous imbalance is likely to settle salt so is not added. Lastly, salt is known as an effective complement in the eradication of many external parasites. Salt could be used in a fresh water aquarium if it is employed only for one short duration and only if the amounts are adapted to fresh water fish (0,5 to 1 gram per liter of water and that can go up to 3 or 4 grams for the most severe cases). Not to forget, that salt does not evaporate and is eliminated only by successive water changes. We will prefer the salt of Guérande to that of kitchen, because it does not have nonfluorinated additives. Do not use Marine salt because it contains minerals which can prove to be harmful with the normal balance of the chemistry of fresh water and can cause a reduction in hardness and pH.

Your home pharmacy for Tropheus should always be equipped with:
- Mercurochrome for the wounds on the body.
- Bétadine for the wounds on the fins
(Bétadine supports pushes back it those, the mercurochrome prevents some.)
- Flagyl®500.
- Fluvermal®100.
- Ciproxine®500.
- Prefuran.
- Sea Salts.
- Sepia 30K (Homeopathy).
- Cina 4CH (Homeopathy).

I advise for a successful maintenance:
1) A healthy food containing spirulina (with the highest %).
2) Frequent water changes, but especially regular (at least 10 to 20% per week or at least 30 to 40% every fifteen days).
3) Avoid unnecessary moving of your fish, as well as the internal and external decoration with the aquarium.
4) Avoid all unnecessary stresses of your fish, they should average eight to ten hours of daily rest.

Under these conditions of maintenance, it is much rarer to see appearance of these intestinal infections which do such an amount of devastation among our aquariums with Tropheus. However, that will not prevent a contamination of our hosts, but rarefies it, then by precaution, a preventive cure every six-month period can be administered…