flow in my troph tank

[ddaquaria]

Just because someone did not spend a fortune on powerheads and filtration does not mean they are neglecting these fishes.

I think this is where the attitude of hobbyist splits. You have the side that still follow the "rules" using less expensive equipment, and then you have the side that follow the same "rules" using more expensive equipment. And in the end it comes down to their wanting of the equipment to fulfill their personal desire to the eye. It comes down to personal choice.

Personally, why should you skimp on the packaging when the contents are so valuable.

[myjohnson]

I'm still curious what you meant by "lake conditions." Elaborate? Thanks! :)

No problem, I'll try my best from what little I know.

The lake is a big place, even when talking about just the rocky shoreline that tropheus habitate, there can be great differences. Additionally, some tropheus are collected deeper than other so I'm assuming there is less direct water movement, but there has to still be some under tow.

In general, most tropheus live close to the shore in relatively shallow waters. The sandy substrate is strewn with rocks and pebbles. These are fast moving waters subject to surge, where the shoreline is continuously washed with wind driven waves.

The shallow waters get good sunlight penetration and allows for the growth of algae which the tropheus graze on. It's not really the algae that keeps them alive but rather the critters found living in it, most people call this aufwuchs. Some tropheus keepers will use strong lighting to recreate this; however, without the microorganisms, insect nymphs and larvae, crustaceans, mites, snails and zooplankton we fall short in this regard. But it's nice to see them graze and act natural. Personally, I think eating the green algae is beneficial b/c it helps them pass food and avoid intestinal blockage but we still have to provide additional food, i.e. flakes and/or pellets.

I image tropheus living in a condition that has constant waves hitting against rocks and them trying to eat aufwuchs off these rocks. This would create wide general flow, not a narrow strong flow. I think we can safety assume on some days the winds are not as strong and in turn the water movement is not as great.

Hope that helps. I can add some links for you later if I can find them.

[bethesdaboy]

Brian,

Here is a link you might fine helpful, assuming you already don't have it.

"By having your water constantly moving, you increase the surface area of your tank. The layer in contact with the air is always changing and consequently you dramatically increase the rate at which oxygen can be dissolved into the water, and carbon dioxide is released from the water. The surface area of your tank is always the limiting factor in the number of fishes you can keep in a tank. So, by artificially increasing your tank’s surface area, your tank is then able to house more fish."

"we should pay attention to water movement is because moving water carries oxygen to the denitrifying bacteria in your tank’s substrate. It’s these bacteria that are responsible for the breakdown of harmful waste products (i.e., ammonia and nitrite). Their breaking down ammonia puts it into a form that allows your plants to use it (i.e., nitrate).

And most harmful bacteria are anaerobic. That means that they thrive best in conditions with little to no oxygen. So, by providing a greater air to water interface, you increase the concentration of oxygen in your water, which both your fish and denitrifying bacteria need, and harmful bacteria dislike. "

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/water_movement.php

Decent read. It'll help you decide for yourself how much flow you want. If you are set on getting 2xk2s then google modded tunze nano stream, you might save some money if you got one PH and it provides about the same amount of flow as the 2xk2s with less use of electricity.

This is true and the real point of a wet/dry filter.

[myjohnson]

+1 on wet/drys! The bigger the better too.

[eklikewhoa]

I been told you a single mp40w wasn't gonna cut it in the 6ft. Even when I had my tank running I wanted to do more then the 2 that were in there.

.... then you wanted to get the Mp10 for the 4fter... now that would have been a joke!


I'm picking up that 20g you couldn't find from fshfrk (btw it's sitting in the same garage for the longest now cause john said so) and will be running the Mp10w on that.... now that's a perfect couple!

[myjohnson]

dude, I told you I asked John about it! He has like 5x20g. He said take whatever but I couldn't fine the one with the glass you were talking about.

Check your pm foo.

[eklikewhoa]

I have no pm..... I'll get on aim.

Don't text or call cause I'm network sharing off my phone to power this laptop.

[geoff_tropheus]

I think this is where the attitude of hobbyist splits. You have the side that still follow the "rules" using less expensive equipment, and then you have the side that follow the same "rules" using more expensive equipment. And in the end it comes down to their wanting of the equipment to fulfill their personal desire to the eye. It comes down to personal choice.

Personally, why should you skimp on the packaging when the contents are so valuable.

Donald,

There is a huge difference in making a personal choice, and meeting the need vs. the amount of money you spend and calling it neglect.

I do believe that if you can afford it, then spend it. You cannot take that money with you, but dont go around and telling people they are neglecting their animals because they chose a Perfecto Tank, with Standard equipment that meets the need, versus someone who purchased a Solid Oak custom stand, and Aquarium custom built by Deep Sea Aquatics, with all the bells and whistles for lighting and filtration.

The fish deserve the best care you can provide them, otherwise dont keep the fish.

[eklikewhoa]

different strokes for different folks...


Can you keep them in the minimal while still providing the environment needed... yes.
Can you push it to the limit to exceed the minimal and still provide the environment needed... yes.

[myjohnson]

yupers!

Seen it work all kinds of ways.

It's really no wrong or right about it.

Fish stays alive....you doing ok.

Fish breed....fish happy.

[eklikewhoa]

Now I will go as far as saying that the Vortech is not a waste of money or for just those that are rich cause I will say that I am far from rich and mj..... well he's probably in the hole more than most of us make as far as household income goes.

The Vortech will replicate surges, waves and random flow patterns which is real similar to what happens in the wild.... it's not always flowing in a single pattern and being caged in glass tanks further pushes the "need" for random flow pattern. Not sure how far it goes in health but I'm sure it does something.

[aggrofishkeeper]

Now I will go as far as saying that the Vortech is not a waste of money or for just those that are rich cause I will say that I am far from rich and mj..... well he's probably in the hole more than most of us make as far as household income goes.

The Vortech will replicate surges, waves and random flow patterns which is real similar to what happens in the wild.... it's not always flowing in a single pattern and being caged in glass tanks further pushes the "need" for random flow pattern. Not sure how far it goes in health but I'm sure it does something.

Would you insist someone keeping petros or tropheus even saltwater to get one or do you think being without one will be fine.

[ddaquaria]

Donald,

There is a huge difference in making a personal choice, and meeting the need vs. the amount of money you spend and calling it neglect.

I do believe that if you can afford it, then spend it. You cannot take that money with you, but dont go around and telling people they are neglecting their animals because they chose a Perfecto Tank, with Standard equipment that meets the need, versus someone who purchased a Solid Oak custom stand, and Aquarium custom built by Deep Sea Aquatics, with all the bells and whistles for lighting and filtration.

The fish deserve the best care you can provide them, otherwise dont keep the fish.

Geoff, I never called it neglect. You can meet those needs with inexpensive equipment or expensive equipment, as long as you are following the "rules" in order to maintain your fish.

I'm trying to figure out where I stated that people were neglecting their fish by not purchasing expensive equipment.

And again, I end with, why spend so much on the contents and skimp on the package? It just not what I do. (SHOULD I HIGHLIGHT THE "I")

[bethesdaboy]

When all else fails, play it!!!

[geoff_tropheus]

Donald,

I am sorry if I misunderstood your last statment, when you posted..."..why should you skimp on the packaging when the contents are so valuable."

I took this to mean the samething as the others before you posted, said that spending $100 on a couple Aqua Clear 110's and a Modified MaxJet 1200 was a minimal approach that was neglecting the fishes.

If that is not what you meant, sorry.

Love you man...:)