Common causes of death?

[mandem]

I've had african cichlids for a few years. I don't know much about them but they've seemed to be doing fine. Had several sets of fry and grew from 1" to 5-6". A couple months ago several died, one after the other. I gave the rest away and started over with small ones (more affordable). This past week 2 of the 7 new ones died. It seems like one day they're swimming around and eating, the next day they're dead. What can I do to try to figure this out before the rest die? It doesn't correspond to water changes or anything else that I can think of. Unless - can snails make them sick? Somehow, seemingly out of nowhere, we started getting snails maybe 6 months ago (a bit more?). They must have come on a new rock or something but I don't remember buying anything new recently. Now there's probably 100+... small spiral/cone ones. Thanks.

[ssrprelude]

Your snails are MTS and most likely have nothing to do with the death of your fish. What size tank do you have? How many fish are in there? How is your filtration? Is there any aggression between the fishes?

[mandem]

It's a 60 gal. We bought 7 little ones (now down to 5). Probably about the same before when we first started. It uses the top fin 60 that came with the tank for filtration. Test strips look like everything's normal - the same as it's been since we started. When they were big there were a couple aggressive ones but the little ones seem to all get along so far. They have more hiding spots that the big ones couldn't get into.

[ssrprelude]

Test strips are good for quickie test but not very accurate. It could be anything killing your fish from bloat, to tap water condition, to tank water conditions. Get a better test kit and do an all around test. Report back the findings.

[mandem]

ok, i have a full test kit and tested everything. Here are my results and some questions... I should mention I change it every couple weeks and tomorrow is the day so these numbers are likely high because of it. I'll test again tomorrow after the change. We also just got the new fish so there were a couple weeks when there were no fish in the tank, not sure if that would affect anything.

pH: not really sure. I always thought I had (and needed) high pH so I first did the high range test. it looks a bit more yellow than the bottom color on the color card but appears close to the 7.4. I then did the regular pH test and it turned very yellow. similar to the 6.0 on the color card. Either way I think it's too low. Options?

Ammonia & Nitrite are both (clearly) 0ppm.

Nitrate: not really sure. It's definitely more red than orange or yellow but to my eyes everything 40 and above looks exactly the same on the chart. Pretty sure it's high though. How can I be sure? Options to fix?

What, if any of these, might the snails affect? I know their numbers are growing but I haven't been changing the water more than before. I thought they'd keep it cleaner but if they have a lot of waste maybe that's not the case.

Thanks,

[Mzungu]

I'm a bit confused, here, so be patient. :) When did you add fish? Did they all die? Can you provide a timeline?

The ones in the tank now, are they all new? If so, did you get them all at the same time?

Where did you get them?

Do you know what kind you have?

Snails won't hurt anything. Yes, they MIGHT clean the glass for you, but it sounds like the kind of snails you have (as supadave said) are MTS, and thus probably won't do much but eat fish food and poop. :) So yes, they add waste to the water.

I don't know that I've ever met someone who keeps African cichlids that doesn't have MTS - it's apparently inevitable. My fiance actually gives me his MTS whenever he can, because I actually like them for my planted tanks. )

Can you describe what you do when you do water changes?

A nitrate reading of about 40 isn't too bad, but you're right that anything more than "pink" pretty much looks the same.

Water changes are your best friend. They're your best bet for ridding the tank of nitrates. Nothing else will do that (except live plants, which aren't commonly used in African cichlid tanks because of their tendency to nibble/eat/dig).

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[mandem]

I wish I paid more attention, I'm not really clear myself but I'll do my best. We started the tank 3 years ago and got 6-7 cichlids at once. We slowly got rid of females because we didn't want more babies and replaced with new ones or kept some fry. Always keeping about the same initial number. Over the past 3-4 (?) months 3 or 4 died within a short span and we gave the rest away to start over with small ones. The tank was empty for 2 or 3 weeks then we bought 7 new ones at once a couple weeks ago from the Fish Gallery off 59. 2 died last week. The rest seem to be doing ok this week.

I don't know what kind they are - they were labelled but i didn't pay attention. I can post pics later. One is a yellow lab, one was in the same tank with it but has white/black horizontal stripes. The rest are dark blue with vertical strips or yellow tipped fins.

For water changes, i use a gravel pump and take out about 1/3 of the water and refill it will tap water that's been treated so there's no chlorine/chloramine. i try to do it every 2 weeks but sometimes it's every 3 since we don't have many fish and the snailes seem to keep the glass clean. I take out all the fake plants/rocks and clean them with a tooth brush to remove the algae (quickly, not hardcore about it). I keep some treated water in the bucket and shake the filters around to clean them a bit. I replace the carbon when they look too bad.

What about the low pH? do water changes help that too? can that kill them?

[fishman1]

did you cycle the tank?

[electricblue]

i'm not sure what's causing your problems since i'm barely getting back into fish myself and also had a bunch of healthy ones die out of nowhere when my water was at perfect conditions according to the test but if you want to get rid of those little snails go get some assassin snails (i think awh had some on sale). i've heard those little snails can mess up your filter if they get in there.

[Dow]

I don't think it would have too much of an impact but do you clean your filter every time you change your water? You could have a beneficial bacteria deficiency. I clean my filters once every two months or so.

[mandem]

fishman1 - when? 3 yrs ago, yes. last month between giving the old fish away and buying new ones, no.

dow - yes, i clean them up a bit each time. not alot, just shake the extra junk and snails off in some clean water. with all the rocks, etc i've assumed i'm not getting rid too much but i don't know for sure. i can try to scale back a bit on that and increase the water changes and see what happens.
thanks all.

[mandem]

i forgot to post the results after the last water change. have a couple questions too.

i did the regular ph test and the high ph test. both show 7.2 - 7.4 range. the book says cichlids should be at 8.2. how much stress am i causing them being that low? the nitrate test is still bright red so it's at least 40 but i can't tell. not sure how that can be so high still. what are causes of high nitrate and is changing water the best solution? guess i'll change it again this week and see what it takes to get it lower.

thanks.