Too OverStocked?

[barrettsline]

You do exactly what I do. only make holes for what you need. But if you can drill you some more holes and drop and additional filter in it could hurt, only help. What kinda powerhead are you using?

[GunMedalGleam]

Its a life-tech unit. ap150fc. 120v 60hz 23w Flow rate 1100l/h. Have not heard of the company, but the unit seems legit. Pretty strong current that i do believe discourage alot of aggression in the tank.

[barrettsline]

Sounds good. I really hope things work out for you. Please keep us updated on things progress.

[GunMedalGleam]

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Somewhat off subject, but can you help me identify these little white cichlids. I took them out of my overstock tank because they are aggressive as ****. Plan was to remove them from there environment for about a week then put them back so the other Africans can have more of a run in the tank. Well now them sum*****es are giving the terrors a hard time LOL. And also Can you identify The big guy. Is that as green terror or a Jack?

[barrettsline]

Idea of where you got it? Looks like just a mixed mbuna but it may be a labidichromis chismulae or a pseudotropheus socolofi. Look like Juvenals so kinda hard to tell, but probably just a mixed Mbuna.

The other I believe is a jaguar, but south American's aren't really my forte. Get with Aggrocichlidfan and ask him.


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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=29.532022,-95.157740

[GunMedalGleam]

Many of you are saying that i need more filtration, let say i up grade too an ehiem 2217. would i be good then?

[supadave]

Many of you are saying that i need more filtration, let say i up grade too an ehiem 2217. would i be good then?

Adding a 2217 will be great .

[GunMedalGleam]

ADD? OMG!, i was thinking more like substitution.

[SunnyHouTX]

You make it sound like there's a thing called over filtration There isn't.

[Complexity]

There are many reasons for dual filtration on a tank. The first is that the tank size ratings on the filters are not accurate, at least not for a real tank with real fish that eats real food and poops out real detritus. I think it's kind of like gas milage. Sure, you might get it if you control everything with the most perfect optimal conditions, but in reality, it just doesn't happen.

More than that, your filters are a large source of your good bacteria. By having two filters, you can clean one filter (which disturbs the bacteria) while leaving the other filter alone to ensure that you have enough good bacteria to maintain the fish load in the tank. All you have to do is rotate which filter you clean each time.

Plus, as filters age, sometimes things go wrong. An o-ring leaks. The hose gets cut by the clamp over time and needs to be replaced. You bump something and accidentally break the hose nipple or impeller shaft. Suddenly, your filter needs to be worked on or needs replacement parts. If that's the only filter you have on the tank, you're in trouble. But if you have two filters, you can get along fine with just one filter for a few days while you repair the second filter.

I've had weird things happen, such as Malaysian trumpet snails crawl into the impeller housing while I'm doing a water change so when I turned my filter back on, it was noisy as all heck (and could damage the impeller). That required that I take it apart and clean the snails out in order to get the filter up and running again. This has happened to me when I didn't have time to service my filter. If I only had one filter on the tank, I would have had a problem. But with two filters, I was okay.

Even a leaky o-ring can put a filter out of service until you can get the problem fixed. As long as you have two filters on the tank, it's no big deal.

While these kinds of things don't happen often and are easily resolved, they do happen over time. All my tanks have two filters on them; I cannot imagine just having one filter on a tank (only exception is my 5g tank, but I have spare filters for it if I need). Filtration is probably the single, most important aspect of caring for an aquarium and is not the area to skimp. There are a lot of other ways to save money to keep costs down, but if the tank's filtration is insufficient or breaks down, everything dies in a hurry. You can go without lights. You can use cheap decor. You don't even have to have substrate. But you have to have filtration 24/7/365 without fail.

[Complexity]

BTW, just to give some idea of what I have (and the guys with wet/dry can make even higher claims), here's what I have on my tanks. I happen to have Rena Filstar XP filters, but the basic concept is the same no matter what the brand.

90g:
Two XP4 canisters, each rated at 450g/hr (so that's 900g/hr -- the desired 10x flow rate)
Each of those canisters are claimed to be sufficient for tanks up to 260g, but I have TWO of them on a 90g tank.

75g:
Same as my 90g. Two XP4 canisters. So I'm over 10x flow rate.
So I have TWO canisters that each claim to be for tanks up to 260g on a 75g tank.

29g(a):
Two XP2 canisters, each rated at 300g/hr (so that's 600g/hr -- that's 20x flow rate!)
Each of those canisters are claimed to be sufficient for tanks up to 75g, but I have TWO of them on a 29g tank.

29g(b)
One XP1 and one XP2 canisters, rated at 250 and 300 g/hr, respectively (so a total of 550g/hr -- around 19x flow rate).
The XP1 claims to be sufficient for a 45g, and the XP2 for a 75g. But I have them BOTH on a 29g.

And with all that, I'm thinking of adding more flow to my 90g. There is no such thing as too much filtration.

[barrettsline]

And with all that, I'm thinking of adding more flow to my 90g. There is no such thing as too much filtration.

+10 on this.

If my tanks aren't turning over 8-10 times an hour I ain't happy.

It never hurts to have a back canister or 3 on your aquarium. Somthing can and will go wrong eventually. And it never fails that it's when you don't have time to fix it.



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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=29.253614,-95.210960

[wesleydnunder]

I also run multiple filters on my tanks for the same reasons listed. Aside from the benefits of adequate biofiltration and having a back-up in case one system fails, multiple filtration tends to create more current flow in the tank. This is not a bad thing for an mbuna tank. As for over-stocking, Paul Loiselle suggests high stocking density in mbuna tanks to cut down on aggression. When there are literally too many fish in the tank for an aggressor to focus his attention on any one fish, injuries and deaths happen less often.

Mark

[GunMedalGleam]

I know there no such thing as over filtration. In fact Every filter Ive had has been rated for double the tank on using it on. My 55 gallon has an fluval 405 rated at 100g, my 75 gallons used a Ehiem 2217 rated at 160gallons, ****, my 20 gallons has 2 hang on rated for 50 gallons each. Plus all have an underwater powerhead filter. There a difference between over filtration, and outright overkill. Especially with a 50% water change every Tuesday. At-least its seems that way to me, but i pretty new to the game.

Now i can definitely see getting a bigger canister for the 55 because of the bio load. But using 2 triple rated filters just seem like im useing electricity just for the hell of it.

[Complexity]

You asked us, and we answered. You have received multiple comments from people, saying to use two filters. You have not received even a single comment suggesting that using two filters was unnecessary, overkill, a bad idea, or a waste of money. But in the end, it's your tank, your fish, and your decision.

Does this mean you cannot use one filter successfully? No, not at all. You can use one filter. What it means is that your tank will be underfiltered for the fish you wish to keep. Filtration for cichlids is not the same as filtration for guppies and tetras. Oxygen needs are not the same. The entire environment is not the same. This means it's important to adjust the filtration accordingly. If that adjustment is not made, then other adjustments will need to be made to compensate.

Here are some things you might want to try to make up for the lack of proper filtration:

• While it is generally recommended to overstock/crowd cichlid tanks to spread out aggression, an underfiltered tank will be unable to maintain such a high fish load. In that case, try to stick with the least aggressive fish as possible (peacocks are popular), look for smaller fish and avoid larger fish, and provide lots of hiding places so the fish can hide while being chased.
• If aggression does become a problem, keep on hand antibiotics or other treatment aides to help wounded fish. Keeping a hospital tank on hand is most preferred.
• You will need to be much more vigilant on servicing the one filter you have since it will be trying to clean all the detritus in the tank by itself. The filter pads will get clogged faster which means you'll lose flow faster which means you'll lose oxygen faster. Stock up on filter pads.
• Maintain a good regiment on water changes and vacuum out the detritus very thoroughly each week. Generally, 50% weekly water changes are recommended. If you run into problems, you can increase it to twice weekly, if needed. You can also get the Eheim Quick Vac to pick up detritus every day when you don't perform a water change. This will in essence perform a manual filtration to help make up for underfiltration problem.
• You may want to order spare parts for your filter to keep on hand so if you do run into a problem, you can fix it immediately. You can ask which parts most people have to replace over time. I'd suggest getting o-ring grease and/or replacement o-rings at the very least.
• You can add a surface skimmer to help remove the protein layer on the surface which will aid in the gas/oxygen exchange. The only drawback with this is that it will decrease your intake flow of the single filter you are using. If that becomes a problem, you can adjust the surface skimmer to the off position for normal use and turn it on only for a few minutes a couple of times each day.
• You can also add a bubble wand with an air pump. This does nothing for filtration, but helps break the surface of the water which also aids in the gas/oxygen exchange. Since the tank will be underfiltered, anything you can do to increase oxygen in the tank will be helpful so this may be a very good choice for your situation.
• If high nitrates or algae becomes a problem, you can add nitrate and/or phosphate absorbing pads to your filter. Seachem Purigen can be recharged to reuse many times and phosphate pads last about a month before needing to be replaced.

I'm sure there are other things you can do to help make it work. The main thing is to be highly vigilant with maintenance of the entire tank, filter, and water changes, and find ways to handle the lack of oxygen and high nitrates and phosphates. With diligent care, you can make one filter work just fine. However, having said all that, I still very highly recommend two filters.