L66 pleco info and tips needed

[Fishkeeper19]

Hi, I have am getting a 40B and a couple of 10 gallons. I will be looking to have some L66 plecos just to enjoy and observe at first, but as I get to learn more about them individually and their habits, gender, etc.., I will look to try and breed them. I am basically wondering how many I could house in the 40B to breed? I am getting them from a vendor that is out of state and they will be special ordered at 3"-4" and will not be sold by sex but by whatever they catch in the net first. I am thinking about ordering 5-6. I was going to have them in the 40B which will have some white caribsea sand about .5" deep maybe a little more. Some driftwood and smooth stones as well as some plecos caves. I will have either just a 2217/fluval 306 or both one of those and either a 2217/cascade 1000 on the 40B and will have a powerhead or something to great some flow, because I've read they enjoy extra flow. I would keep the tank 80-84. I have also read they are primarily carnivorous so I'd feed shrimp, shrimp pellets, sinking carnivore pellets, bloodworms, and occasionally some veggies. I am just wanting to know if this is about right to maintain a group of them and if not what am I doing wrong? I have read that 5-6 is too much for a 40B and I've read otherwise so I'm split on that. Something else I would need some help on is sexing them as I have heard at 3"-4" they are sexable, but every thread on other sites I read they seem to be split as to whats a male and female and how to tell. I have picked up females head shape is more of a "V" while males are more rounded. Males have a considerable amount more of "hair" all over their body while females may have some, but not to the extent of the males. Thanks in advance for reading and helping and any other tips or info would be greatly appreciated.

[Austy16414]

Most of that sounds good. I would buy 6, sex them, then sell what you need to get a good ratio. Usually a rule of thumb is a square foot per pleco, but if you've got enough hiding spots and breaks in line of sight you should be good. Have you thought about using soil though? If you're looking to breed them you will need very soft, acidic water for best results. Roy Williams (mnemenoi on here) has some great tips for setting up soft water tanks

[Fishkeeper19]

Yeah I was thinking about getting 6 as it would increase my chance of both m and f. I have not really considered soil, because I have read people saying that it clogged up their filter and made their tank cloudy. If soil is that much better I'll consider it, but I was hoping to stay with sand. As far as keeping my water soft and acidic that is one of the things I am confused about is how to achieve that. So any help on getting soft acidic water would be great. And another thing I see to never be able to do it sex them. I have looked at a good amount of threads on sexing hand what sexes they are, and have found it's harder than most other fish (at least to me). What I've picked up so far is females are generally have broader shoulders (more space between them) then males, and also have a v shaped "nose" (I know it's head by sounds better when I say it). And for males that even though some females have "hair" males have more at more places all over the body. Something that throws me off is that people are saying that subdominant males tend to have female characteristics. That's what I've picked up, not sure if it's right or even if it's the best way to sex them, but that's what I've found in my research so far.

[Austy16414]

As far as sexing, I'm in the same boat. It's never really been my forte, but I can assure you there is someone on here who can assist you with that. Everything I know of soft water is through Roy, and from what he's told me soil is the best substrate for keeping soft water tanks. I know there's some other tricks, but if you get soil as substrate and only use RO (demineralized) water for water changes, I think you can have success breeding them. My best advice is to reach out to him, he is a master of anything planted/softwater

[Fishkeeper19]

How would I get some RO water? I have always read people say things like they chance tanks with RO water but never really new what it was or how to get it. And as far as a good ratio would 2 males and 3 females be good? Or would 4 females be better (assuming I get that many). And thanks for the info so far I'll make sure to give him a PM

[Austy16414]

You can either find an RO filter, or you can just buy RO water from an LFS. Reverse osmosis water is basically just water with less minerals, therefore more acidic and softer. It will not be cheap, but if done correctly you can get your money back once you start selling offspring. The more females you can get, the better. And of course, hopefully this helps some

[Austy16414]

Here's a decent article:

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/fwsoftness.htm

[Fishkeeper19]

You can either find an RO filter, or you can just buy RO water from an LFS. Reverse osmosis water is basically just water with less minerals, therefore more acidic and softer. It will not be cheap, but if done correctly you can get your money back once you start selling offspring. The more females you can get, the better. And of course, hopefully this helps some

do you know where I could buy and RO filter? And down the road if they do breed should I have an RO filter on the fry tank as well? Or is it mainly to help them spawn?

[Austy16414]

It's mainly to help them spawn, but if you end up getting an RO filter you might as well use it on the fry tank too. I would keep a look out for one here, or post a wanted thread. Also check out Craigslist. If no luck, maybe online

[Fishkeeper19]

How much does it cost for 2? 1 best suited for a 40B and 1 best suited for a 10g?

[Austy16414]

You will only need one, because they don't hook up to the tank. It's similar to a carbon water filter or water softener in your home. You would just hook it up to your water line and fill the tank with that water

[Fishkeeper19]

What about just straight up RO water? Do you know where they sell it? And do they sell it in bulk? Also how much would I add each water change? Would all the water I add have to be RO or just add RO to the water I out in the tank?

[Austy16414]

The only LFS I know for sure that carries it is Aqaurium World, but I'm sure others do. Not sure on bulk sale though. All the water would have to be RO, or else your soil will absorb the minerals and it will lose its ability to soften your water

[Austy16414]

Once the soil soaks up those minerals in regular water, there's no way to get them out

[Fishkeeper19]

So I would pretty much have to start out with RO and do water changes with only that? If so if I ever were to accidentally do a water change with non-RO water my tank would never be able to have effective RO water with out completely draining it?