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  • Nitrate testing question

    If I posted this in the wrong area please move. Thanks

    The history before the question: I had a saltwater tank that I broke down and turned into a freshwater tank. I cleaned it out as best I could. There are 2 overflow boxes (one on the left and one on the right) in the tank and the tank is drilled. The way it's designed...it overflows into a small area then overflows again where the pipes are. I couldn't get in between the two overflows and there is sand left over from the saltwater that I couldn't get out. I rinsed the tank several times and used a bottle brush between the two overflows to clean it. I cleaned the sump, removed all the salt creep and changed the hoses. I purchased river rock from petsmart and plastic plants from drs foster smith. I had rock substrate, rocks, wood and live plants from previous tanks. The wood, substrate and rocks have been stored on the patio for the last 4 years. I rinsed everything well before putting it into the tank. To my surprise I still had MTS snails alive after 4 years of storage. After moving the plants into the new tank I dosed with excel. Or I should say overdosed with excel that had also been stored under the stand for the last 4 years. I am currently still cycling the tank with pure ammonia. The same kind of ammonia that I have used to cycle many tanks before. I'm hoping I didn't leave anything out. Now to my question.
    Question: I tested for nitrates with an API fw test kit. Purchased new about three week ago. When I add the drops from bottle no. 1 it instantly turns a burnt orange to a tea color. After I add drops from bottle no. 2 my water turns to a yellow color for 5 nitrates. I followed the directions by shaking the bottles as directed and shaking the test tube as directed. My first thought was the excel was bad. I took some of the old excel put it in the tube with tap water and the test was normal, it didn't turn the burnt orange color after adding drops from bottle no. 1. I tested my other tank and the test was also normal when I tested it. I thought maybe I didn't test right. I tested the new tank again and got the same result, bottle no. 1 turned the color burnt orange before adding the 2nd bottle. I did a 90% water changed and tested again. Same results. I had a friend test their saltwater tank with the fw test kit and it didn't turn a burnt orange. I've tried everything to figure this out and I've even called API and asked a biologist that does testing on the actual test kits. All he could say was, You can tell me everything you did and I can sit here all day and listen but I still don't know. It kinda ticked me off so I just said ok thanks and hung up. They were no help. I'm worried that maybe some how my rocks or wood have been contaminated and there is something leaching out into the water that will kill the fish. Has anyone ever heard of the test kit doing this before? Is there anything else I should do or test for without breaking down the tank and starting over again?
    Sorry for the long read but I wanted to give you a full count of everything that has been done. Please
    A house without a puffer is not a Home.

  • #2
    It's possible you carried over bacteria from the plants that's converting the ammonia into nitrites and then into nitrates which is then showing up in your testing. You may also have nitrates in your water supply. Additionally, certain substrates for planted tanks have been known to affect water quality in the first few weeks.

    Some additional information would be helpful. How long has the tank been cycling? Have you been testing regularly for ammonia and nitrites, and if so, what have your readings been? How large is the tank? How long did you go without a water change before doing the 90% water change? Did you test your tap water for nitrates? What substrate are you using? How heavily planted is the tank? Are you dosing ferts and/or injecting CO2?

    And, lastly, please double check the expiration date on your test kit. Even though you just bought it, that doesn't mean it wasn't sitting on the shelf for a long time.
    Vicki

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    • #3
      It's possible you carried over bacteria from the plants that's converting the ammonia into nitrites and then into nitrates which is then showing up in your testing.
      I intentionally moved filter pads over to the new tank to start the cycle. This still does not explain why it turns colors before I add drops from bottle no. 2.

      You may also have nitrates in your water supply.
      Tested it and the nitrates are 0 straight from the tap.

      Additionally, certain substrates for planted tanks have been known to affect water quality in the first few weeks.
      The substrate I'm using has been used before. The only thing it's ever affected was the ph.


      How long has the tank been cycling?
      Almost 4 weeks

      Have you been testing regularly for ammonia and nitrites, and if so, what have your readings been?
      Yes. I'm keeping the ammonia at level 4.

      How large is the tank?
      160 gallons with 55 gallon sump

      How long did you go without a water change before doing the 90% water change?
      2 weeks, I thought the excel was bad so I did the water change to get it out.

      Did you test your tap water for nitrates?
      Yes. But I think you're still missing the point. I never added drops from bottle no. 2, I only added drops from bottle no. 1 when the test turned a rusty orange color. After I added bottle no. 2 it showed only 5 nitrates. My question was why did it turn colors "before" adding bottle no. 2?

      What substrate are you using?
      River rock and from petsmart and schultz pond substrate from home depot (previously used in other tanks)

      How heavily planted is the tank?
      It only has 6 or 7 small plants. Unless you are looking for them you wouldn't know they were there.

      Are you dosing ferts and/or injecting CO2?
      Only dosed once with excel that was in the cabinet for about 4 years. I also added excel to the test tube with tap water and the test did not change after adding bottle no. 1. I also tested the established tank that has been running for over 4 years and when I added drops from bottle no. 1 the color did not change.

      And, lastly, please double check the expiration date on your test kit.
      Done that. The date on the bottle is 01/11.

      My main concern is that I want to move Annabelle (fahaka puffer) into this tank once it's cycled but if there is something that in there that will harm her I would rather take it completely down give it another good cleaning and start over.
      Last edited by edmlfc; 10-20-2011, 11:50 PM.
      A house without a puffer is not a Home.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by edmlfc View Post
        Done that. The date on the bottle is 01/11.
        So it's expired by 3/4 of a year. That may be the cause of the problem right there. Chunk it and buy a new one.

        My main concern is that I want to move Annabelle (fahaka puffer) into this tank once it's cycled but if there is something that in there that will harm her I would rather take it completely down give it another good cleaning and start over.
        You can always add a cheap fish or two to check the water conditions. If all goes well, give them away and then add your puffer.
        Vicki

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        • #5
          According to Mars Fish care the date on the bottle is the production date not the exp. date. The test is good for up to 3 years after the production date. I'm taking the water to the lfs tomorrow for them to test. Then I'm going to remove the rock and wood. I'll put the rocks in one bucket and the wood in another and let it sit in water then I'll test the water after a week or two. I still have a few more experiments to try. Thanks for the help.
          A house without a puffer is not a Home.

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          • #6
            I've had bad luck with old substrate and wet/drys... even though everything else was new I would have off the charts readings for nitrate.
            700g Mini-Monster tank

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            • #7
              Originally posted by edmlfc View Post
              According to Mars Fish care the date on the bottle is the production date not the exp. date. The test is good for up to 3 years after the production date.
              Okay, then that's not the problem. All my tanks are established so it's been a long time since I've used my test kit so I forgot that the date is a production date and not an expiration date.
              Then I'm going to remove the rock and wood. I'll put the rocks in one bucket and the wood in another and let it sit in water then I'll test the water after a week or two. I still have a few more experiments to try. Thanks for the help.
              That may be the only way to figure out what's causing it. I'd also run the experiment with the substrate, as well. Let us know what you find out.
              Vicki

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              • #8
                Went to the lfs yesterday and had them test my water. They had the same results after adding bottle no. 1. After speaking to him about everything I've tested he told me that he has seen this before. He's not sure what causes it but he believes it's due to fertilizer. I dosed the tank with excel, only once and my plants are thriving. I did run another test this morning and the color wasn't as dark as it has been. Seems it's starting to lighten up. If it is caused from the excel then it should get lighter and lighter after the plants have used up the fertilizer. I'll keep you posted.
                A house without a puffer is not a Home.

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                • #9
                  I've never heard anyone have ferts causing issues with nitrate testing, but it's easy enough to test out. Get a bucket of water. Run a nitrate test. Add excel. Run another nitrate test. I'm curious to find out what results you'd get.
                  Vicki

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                  • #10
                    Complexity you almost read my mind. After many test I finally figured it out. I keep my ammonia at 4 (fishless cycling) once I added the excel and tested the tank the nitrate test went nuts. After a few days the nitrite test also started to turn an odd grey color. Now that I haven't added any excel and plants have absorbed the fertilizer my tank is testing normal again. In a cup I raised the amm. to 4 dosed with excel and the nitrate test went nuts again. My guess is an uncycled tank using pure ammonia and excel caused some kind of strange reaction in the test kit. Case closed.
                    A house without a puffer is not a Home.

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                    • #11
                      Interesting. Is this the old excel you're using? I wonder if your excel went bad. Since planted tanks using excel goes through the stuff like crazy, maybe you can buy some new excel and repeat the test to see if you get the same results. If not, then you know the old excel is bad and know to toss it.

                      Also keep in mind that excel isn't a fertilizer. It's a carbon substitute. You still need to add ferts to the tank for optimum plant growth (however, certain plants grow fine without the addition of excel and/or ferts).

                      BTW, most tanks with plants added cycle very quickly. Depending on tank size and the number of plants added, you can cycle a tank in just a week. Hornwort is often added to help the process along (but it is NOT excel friendly). The plants not only carry over bacteria, but they also take up the ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates which smooth the entire process.

                      When hurricane Rita hit, my 75g was heavily planted and overstocked with tons of fish, all in a "high tech" setting with injected CO2, bright lights, and 2 large canister filters. I lost power for 2 weeks. This meant I lost almost all the plants and the canisters became anaerobic due to lack of oxygen since they weren't able to run. The dying plants made things worse because the dead plant material broke down, adding to the rising levels of ammonia. The only thing I could do is run 2 battery powered bubblers and do water changes. This was a nightmare situation. Throughout it all, I lost just 1 fish and never went through another cycle. This is because people from all over sent me a bunch of plants. So once I regained power, the plants eased things over very nicely. My tank was in great shape very quickly. I think adding plants is one of the best ways to cycle a tank.
                      Vicki

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                      • #12
                        I don't think I ever paid much concern to nitrogen cycle on initial start up of any heavily planted tank, only problem was after it was established and all the plants suffered from not enough.
                        700g Mini-Monster tank

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                        • #13
                          It's a 160 gallon tank with a hand full of plants. I just added a few more yesterday. I mainly used the excel for algae control and the bottle was 4 years old. Once I put the puffer in the tank I won't be using it. It seems to give her cloudy eyes. I never figured that out but when I first got her she was deathly sick. After 4 months of treatments she became healthy but I don't want to take that chance again. I'm not sure how good her immune system is. I'm only planting low light easy to grow plants. These are plants that I had in another tank years ago that did very well. I kept my list so that I can do another planted tank with the same plants that did well back then. The tank she is currently in will also be a planted tank. I may buy fertilizer for it once I get it started. For now I'm just going on the cheap. )
                          A house without a puffer is not a Home.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by eklikewhoa View Post
                            I don't think I ever paid much concern to nitrogen cycle on initial start up of any heavily planted tank, only problem was after it was established and all the plants suffered from not enough.
                            That's been my experience, as well. People say planted tanks are difficult, but I honestly don't think so. Once you get over a few learning hurdles, they're really quite easy.

                            Originally posted by edmlfc View Post
                            It's a 160 gallon tank with a hand full of plants. I just added a few more yesterday. I mainly used the excel for algae control and the bottle was 4 years old. Once I put the puffer in the tank I won't be using it. It seems to give her cloudy eyes. I never figured that out but when I first got her she was deathly sick. After 4 months of treatments she became healthy but I don't want to take that chance again. I'm not sure how good her immune system is. I'm only planting low light easy to grow plants. These are plants that I had in another tank years ago that did very well. I kept my list so that I can do another planted tank with the same plants that did well back then. The tank she is currently in will also be a planted tank. I may buy fertilizer for it once I get it started. For now I'm just going on the cheap. )
                            You can probably get away without any ferts or carbon (co2 or excel) with the setup you're describing. My "high tech" tanks went to very simple planted tanks when I was finishing up my degree in college as I just didn't take the time to keep up with it all. I lost a good number of plants that absolutely require ferts and co2, but there were some that great just fine without it. Those are the ones I have now.

                            You can switch to hydrogen peroxide for algae control. Much cheaper and no worries about what it's doing to the water.

                            Which plants are you planning on using? I have a ton of crypt wendtii 'bronze' and hygro corymbosa 'compacta' if you ever want any. They both grow in any setup!
                            Vicki

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                            • #15
                              This is what I had before:
                              Hygrophila Angustifolia
                              Balansae
                              Anubias Nana
                              Amazon Sword
                              Crypt
                              Java Fern

                              This is what I currently have:
                              Hygrophila Angustifolia (my favorite)
                              Balansae
                              Crypt
                              Moss Ball
                              Bananna plant

                              Would love to try:
                              Dwarf hairgrass
                              Micro sword

                              What didn't work in my previous tank
                              Wisteria
                              Ludwigia
                              Cabomba
                              Java Fern

                              Yes if you have extra plants I would love to have some. Just send me a pm on price. I don't live in the Houston area and don't visit as much as I did before so they would have to be mailed to me. Hope that's not a problem.
                              A house without a puffer is not a Home.

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