Fish loss problems.

[Fancyfish]

Hi,
I have a problem that has been happening randomly for a couple of years now. To sum up the problem, I periodically have tanks that the fish and plants die in. These are tanks that have been set up for months or years. I tested 2 today that I had the problem in this week and found Alkalinity at 40 or less, ph off the chart low, Nitrate off the chart high, Nitrite low and hardness 250. I used Mardel’s 5 in 1 test strips. These 2 tanks have whisper filters and I changed the carbon sleeve when I did the water change. Not all the tanks have filters or carbon filters on them.
A more verbose explanation of the problem follows. J

A little back ground. I've kept fish on and off for over 40 years. 3 years ago I moved to a new house about 15 minutes from where I used to live. I kept fish in the old place with no real issues except for lack of room for tanks. :) At the new house I set up my fish room again (yea!) and started keeping guppies, platies, bushy nose pleco's and some catfish. Every so often, I come into the fish room to find a tank has crashed and everything in it dead or dying. I also have several tanks that are pure green water. Generally the fish in those survive best (but not always).
I also have cats. In the fish room live 2 who won’t get along with the others. I've had cats all the time I've had fish. They stick their paws in the water periodically and occasionally fall in (I've some BIG tanks) but this has never caused a problem with the fish before. And I don't know that these cats are even doing anything to the tanks. I clean the floor with bleach (as one does not use the litter box). I was wondering if chlorine gas could be the cause of some of my problems or if urine on the cats paws was a possible culprit.
I live near South Post Oak and West Orem (couple miles west of where 610 loop changes to S. Post Oak).

About a month+ ago my 55g crashed. I lost all the fish in it and the plants died (mostly) as well. I had java fern, java moss and water sprite and duckweed. The tank had been set up for 2 years with a whisper filter on it. I noticed the water sprite looked like it had been burned. It turned brown but didn't die completely. Sent up a bunch of leaves nice and green, and then these also 'burned' and now it is a bunch of plantlets on the 'dead' leaves.

I did a lot of water changes on the tanks on Sunday. I'm getting new fish next week. I seeded the tanks with this strain of yellow snakeskin guppies I have that seem to be very hardy. I also got some new albino topaz guppies on Wed. I split them up and acclimated them to their tanks and then released them. Went and checked on them a couple hours later to find I had lost 2 in the main group and the other 2 didn't look happy. So pulled those out and put them in with the others. I found our pool test kit and then found the 5 in one fish test kit I have. On the pool test kit the water showed: no chlorine, very low Alkalinity (40), very low ph(off the chart) and hardness about 250. On the fish test kit, it showed. Very high Nitrate's (off the chart), low Nitrite, 250 hardness, Low alkalinity(0) and very low ph(off the chart). Water from the tap shows moderate (120) alkalinity and a ph of 6.8. low nitrates and nitrites. I use a water filter to fill my tanks from; water from there show the same alkalinity, ph and hardness (250) as tap and 0 nitrates and nitrites.

I'm guessing the low ph and alkalinity makes the tanks easy to crash. The only Ph problems I remember from when I lived in other places in Houston, was high ph problems.

When the fish died in the 55g, it looked like they started getting diseased. Bloating, white fungus spots, clamped fins. I moved a bunch of the healthiest looking ones into a different tank and most recovered with no treatment. The worst off died. These were platies, bushynose plecos and cory cats. Unfortunately several months later that tank crashed and I lost all but the guppies and some cory cats.

Is the Nitrate problem separate from the low ph and Alkalinity? What is causing the fish die off. I'm guessing that to stabilize the ph, I'll need to raise the alkalinity as well.

Any thoughts and suggestions will be very helpful.

[aquabee]

We definitely need some more information to be able to help.

1. What size tanks (list each one and what fish are in there and how many of them)
2. What filtration is on each one
3. How long has each one been set up
4. What kind of lighting is on the planted tanks
5. What is your water change schedule and what kind of dechlorinator do you use

[aquabee]

On another note, those test strips can be extremely inaccurate, especially in Houston where even ambient humidity can alter your results. I would recommend using a test kit that has glass tubes and liquid reagents (like the API test kit). The basic parameters we usually check are ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and pH. For basic tanks, you don't need to monitor hardness (usually measured in gH and kH) or alkalinity (I'm not even sure how that's different from checking pH).

[Fancyfish]

We definitely need some more information to be able to help.

1. What size tanks (list each one and what fish are in there and how many of them)
2. What filtration is on each one
3. How long has each one been set up
4. What kind of lighting is on the planted tanks
5. What is your water change schedule and what kind of dechlorinator do you use

Ok I will write this all up.

[Fancyfish]

On another note, those test strips can be extremely inaccurate, especially in Houston where even ambient humidity can alter your results. I would recommend using a test kit that has glass tubes and liquid reagents (like the API test kit). The basic parameters we usually check are ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and pH.

Nod. Hate those more complicated one. :P I can never decide if I'm reading them right.

[aquabee]

I'm sorry you had such struggles. Hopefully we can help identify what's going on and get you back on your feet.

[sunkenmetal]

Yea those test strips do not last in Houston's humidty I bought some opened them used them once and then they were junk... Or they were junk to begin with...

[Fancyfish]

We definitely need some more information to be able to help.

1. What size tanks (list each one and what fish are in there and how many of them)
2. What filtration is on each one
3. How long has each one been set up
4. What kind of lighting is on the planted tanks
5. What is your water change schedule and what kind of dechlorinator do you use

I change water infrequently. Mostly I top the tanks. I use a water filter so rarely use declorinator. If I feel the need I use either amquel or stress coat. Both bottles are quite old.

I feed once every other day or so flake food. If i'm being really into the fish they get fed 2 or 3 times a day with flake and pellets.

Tank Size	Fish	#	Filtration	Time	Lighting	Other
5	None		None(airstone)	5 days	Florescent Fish lighting	Seeded with green water and D. monia
5	None		None(airstone)	5 days	Florescent Fish lighting	Seeded with green water and D. monia
5	None		None(airstone)	5 days	Florescent Fish lighting	Seeded with green water and D. monia
5	None		None(airstone)	2 years or so	Florescent one grow lite and one reg	Was going green; seeded with d. monia. Has water sprite and duckweed. Had fish(guppies and plecos) but they died.
5	Guppies	8-50	None(airstone)	2 years or more	Florescent one grow lite and one reg	Water is dark green. Duckweed covers the top in a week or so. Breeding colony of guppies. I’ve pulled a lot of fish out in the last week to seed other tanks.
10	Guppies	8	Corner filter with floss only	2 years or more	Florescent one grow lite and one reg	Tank is set up with gravel over clay cat litter(to grow plants) Had my breeding group of platies in for over a year but recently lost all fish and most plants. Put the guppies and some water sprite and java fern in to try and restart the tank. Did 2 90% water changes this week
10	None		None(air stone)	6 months +	Florescent one grow lite and one reg	Water was green Seeded with D. monia 4 weeks ago
10	Guppies	6	None(Air stone)	6 months +	Florescent one grow lite and one reg	Tank is green has duckweed. Had 4 or so more fish but have not seen them in the last week
10	None		None(Air stone)	2 years	Florescent one grow lite and one reg	Had guppies and plecos, lost them all, seeded tank with green water and D. monia Has water sprite and duckweed
10	None		Whisper 2	2 years	1 incandescent; 1 growlight	Did 90% water change, changed filter cartridge on Sunday. Added 2 guppies; they died on Thursday.
10	None		Corner filter with floss	2 years	1 incandescent; 1 growlight	Gravel bottom, did 90% water change, added green water and D. monia
10	None		Whisper 2	2 years	1 incandescent; 1 growlight	Java moss; changed filter on Sunday. Added 4 guppies on Wed. 2 dead within 2 hours
15 Long	Guppies, Cory cats	10-50 gups 3+ cory cats(adults)	None(air stone)	2 years	Florescent one grow lite and one reg	6 months moved a bunch of platies and cory cats and plecos in with the guppies. These were fish I was saving from a tank going bad. They did fine for several months then I noticed the platies and plecos and some cory cats were gone. Tank is green water.
75	Guppies	14	Whisper 3	2 years +	Florescent one grow lite and one reg	This tank had several plecos, a large breeding colony of platies (50 +) and 7 LF peppered cory cats. Lots of duck weed, water sprite, java moss, java fern and anubias. Did great for most of 2 years. Would go green and then clear up. Then about 6 months or so tank crashed. I’ve done 2 major water changes(50% +) and am restarting it.

[sunkenmetal]

Nice thanks for the list...

[aquabee]

Hm. That's quite an extensive list of tanks. No matter what your tank size, it's important to have filtration. For the types of fish you're keeping, a hang-on-the-back (HOB) filter would be the best option. It has a sponge and biomedia, as well as carbon to pull out some of the organic waste and other toxins. If you're not keeping a filter, I would suggest weekly water changes and sparingly feeding, only because the waste will just pile up and not be treated. You may have decreased oxygen levels as well in your tanks due to a lack of solid filtration. Nitrifying bacteria sitting in biomedia or in a sponge will release oxygen as they metabolize waste.

[aquabee]

So yeah... in summary I think your problems may be in part to poor or no filtration. I'd put a canister filter on that 75 gallon, and HOB filters (I prefer AquaClear brand), plus water changes every 2 weeks. Even the smallest of tanks deserve filters and a good amount of flow. Those 5 gallon tanks may do just fine with a sponge filter (that's what I have on my 8 gallon cube). And when selecting filtration, investing in filters that have at least 4-5 times the turnover of your tank volume will never do you wrong.

[sunkenmetal]

So yeah... in summary I think your problems may be in part to poor or no filtration. I'd put a canister filter on that 75 gallon, and HOB filters (I prefer AquaClear brand), plus water changes every 2 weeks. Even the smallest of tanks deserve filters and a good amount of flow. Those 5 gallon tanks may do just fine with a sponge filter (that's what I have on my 8 gallon cube). And when selecting filtration, investing in filters that have at least 4-5 times the turnover of your tank volume will never do you wrong.

+1

[Totenkampf]

test strips are junk, as noted. they are good for letting you know why everything died maybe. there are very few things that cause the pH to become very acidic over time, at least with houston tap. list your substrate as well. anaerobic pockets in a sand type substrate could cause H2S gas to form and eventually poison the tank. if pH is low, off the chart low, that would do it as that would cause very high CO2 levels in the tank as the calcium carbonate that is present in the water will convert to CO2. are you injecting CO2 as well?

chlorine wants to be a gas at atmospheric conditions, i doubt that the fumes from bleach are building up in an aeriated aquarium. i would doubt that the cats are causing it either unless they are peeing ALOT or are knocking fish food over into the tanks.

[Fancyfish]

So yeah... in summary I think your problems may be in part to poor or no filtration. I'd put a canister filter on that 75 gallon, and HOB filters (I prefer AquaClear brand), plus water changes every 2 weeks. Even the smallest of tanks deserve filters and a good amount of flow. Those 5 gallon tanks may do just fine with a sponge filter (that's what I have on my 8 gallon cube). And when selecting filtration, investing in filters that have at least 4-5 times the turnover of your tank volume will never do you wrong.

In general i agree with you. Filtration is always good. However, my latest problems happened on 2 ten gal tanks with whisper 2 filters running. Whisper 2's should be perfectly fine on 10 gal's with no gravel and very low fish loads (2 and 4 fish). Yet I lost fish in both tanks with in days of putting them in there. That is what has me really confused.

[Totenkampf]

nice list, the burning you are refering to may well be from nitrite / ammonia from poor filtration. that still doesnt explain crashing low pH though does it?