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  • pH has plummeted

    My 56 gal holds various cichlids and late last night I noticed the Green Terror not eating normally. Swimming around ok, just not eating. All the other fish are fine. The Green Terror historically is always the first fish in the tank to react if anything in the chemistry being off. The ammonia was minimal (0-0.2) range, the nitrites were zero and nitrates 10ppm. Nothing a water change wont fix.

    I then tested the pH and it didnt register (lowest the color scale goes is 6.0 and the pH color was just pale yellow). The pH then is likely below 6. The kit shouldnt be out of expiration being bought within the last year or two, so i tested my 29 gal and it was 7.4-7.6 range. The water out of my tap is around 8.0, and I did a 50% water change maybe 10-14 days ago. I normally do about 2 changes a month.

    I will be doing another change as soon as i get home from work today, so putting in alkaline water will temporarily raise the pH but something is driving it down. Only things in the tank are gravel, plastic plants, plastic ornaments and two limestone rocks that i have had for maybe 7 years.

    My only guess is the limestone stopped reacting to buffer the pH. One rock was brown, and even hard scrubbing wasnt exposing much of the surface. The other rock is patchy white and brown. The limestone rock in my 29 is obviously still doing its job (same thing - only plastic plants/decor). All rocks were bought at the same time, so I cant explain why these two essentially corroded to this point.

    I put two brand new limestone rocks in the 56 gal now, but they dont amount to the weight of the previous two rocks. Probably not even half the weight of the previous two. I took a hammer/screwdriver to the old rocks to break them apart, hoping to expose the center if it still will react/buffer (middles werent in great shape but better).

    In the past i used baking soda as a band-aid, but that wont keep the pH from dropping again. I didnt go that route not wanting the pH to rise and drop again.

    Has anyone else noticed pH to drop like this so sharply? Or any techniques for the short-term until I can get more limestone? I also never have seen limestone degrade in this manner.

  • #2
    When you do water changes. How much water do you remove and how often? Could you have contaminated the test? A crash from 7.4 down to 6.0 would kill everything. Could someone put something you don't know about in the tank?
    I live close to you. So our tap water is the same. I don't have any limestone in any tank. I even aged water for years with out ever having PH prob. I have had a chloramine prob. Our water has high chloramines.
    Check your test.
    Nothing Kills Evil Like a Sharp Stick...

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    • #3
      I change about 50% every 2 weeks. Can maybe try shorter periods between changes. I saw some residual liquid in all the test tubes so I washed them out with hot water before testing. I tried multiple test tubes, all same result.

      I dont think it crashed from 7.4 down to 6.0 overnight. I think its been gradually going down. When I do a water change the pH goes to normal levels with the high tap pH, fish perks up, then slowly pH keeps dropping again. This tank even when i lived up north has this issue, which is why the limestone is in there in the first place.

      I am the only one who touches the tanks. We were on vacation in late June. I had done one water change right before we left on june 20th, and another a few days after we returned. the green terror has been eating off and on whole time since i got back. there were people feeding pets while i was gone, but to my knowledge the person didnt touch the tanks because all food bags i pre-measured were intact.

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      • #4
        I'm stuck .
        Nothing Kills Evil Like a Sharp Stick...

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        • #5
          I agree, in that I have no idea what's wrong here...
          I've heard of this issue before, but I can't for the life of me think of anything that would be dropping your pH. You don't have any wood, leaves, cones, or rotting organic matter. Even if you did, a pH of 6.0 or below is hard to achieve here in Houston with RO/DI and pH reducing substrate, let alone your set up, with tap...! How crazy. Sorry I can't be of any help, I'm stumped on this too.

          That little bit of aragonite we have is yours if you want it.
          "I think that God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability." -Oscar Wilde

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          • #6
            It's ok I am stumped too, so couldnt hurt to ask everyone if i was missing something in my analysis :)

            Thanks for the offer on the argonite, but I will probably just stop and buy a larger hunk of limestone on my way home to replace the junky pieces i broke apart.

            I didnt test my two 10 gal (both have no limestone at all), so would be odd if those are fine pH wise too.

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            • #7
              No kidding, so odd- hopefully someone will have a lightbulb moment and help you figure it out... good luck, man!
              "I think that God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability." -Oscar Wilde

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              • #8
                I don't know what you're using for filters, but a canister full of crap can cause the problem your experiencing. Any built up detritus can contribute to ph crashing. Also, I didn't read anything about your KH. This has more to do with PH than most people realize

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                • #9
                  Filtration is pretty basic...just a hang on back Whisper 5 (might be wrong on number). Pads were swapped out on June 19th...so probably are spent or close to it. As for KH, all water is pretty hard in my area. I didnt test hardness for an exact reading

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                  • #10
                    If your source water is 8.0. Limestone won't really buffer the water higher. Limestone raises the pH, but minimally to about 7.6 maybe. Limestone not buffering the water anymore won't cause your pH to crash to 6.0. Also, a drastic change in pH won't kill fish as quick as a drastic change in kH. I would test your kH from your source and your tank. If the kH in your tank is low, your pH won't be stable and could be why it's dropping.

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                    • #11
                      Thanks for the explanation. I dont need the pH at 8, just in the past used the coral rock to keep it higher than 7. The water up north was a lot softer. I will test the KH when i get home today to see if there is a difference source to tank. All the tanks in my home use the same source, so its odd one tank is fine and the other is low.

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                      • #12
                        Looks like swk and mistahoo were both on the right track.

                        When i tested the KH right from the sink it was 6. I tested the tank and it was zero. This would explain the volatility. I did about a 50% change and that put the pH back to 6.8, and the KH is now at 3. This makes sense seeing that tap is KH of 6, and if tank was at 0, then a 50% change would result in a 3. I also put in two more limestones as a safeguard.

                        I turned out two of the ornaments and there was a lot of build up inside (food, waste, etc). I took one ornament out completely.

                        All my other tanks were fine: 29 gal - pH 7.6, KH 3....10 gal - pH 7.8, KH 5....10 gal - pH 8.0, KH 6

                        Something obviously is driving the 56 gal down, so I will keep monitoring the tank testing twice a day. Possibly adding a tbsp or two of sodium bicarbonate if needed to neutralize the extra hydrogen ions. If more frequent changes are needed in the interim so be it.

                        Thanks for the input :)

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                        • #13
                          Also disturbing your substrate and releasing anaerobic gasses will drop your pH quickly.

                          Sent from my spaceship using Tapatalk 2.

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                          • #14
                            If you want to raise it higher, you could add some salt used for mixing saltwater.

                            Sent from my spaceship using Tapatalk 2.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by morpheus View Post
                              Looks like swk and mistahoo were both on the right track.

                              When i tested the KH right from the sink it was 6. I tested the tank and it was zero. This would explain the volatility. I did about a 50% change and that put the pH back to 6.8, and the KH is now at 3. This makes sense seeing that tap is KH of 6, and if tank was at 0, then a 50% change would result in a 3. I also put in two more limestones as a safeguard.

                              I turned out two of the ornaments and there was a lot of build up inside (food, waste, etc). I took one ornament out completely.

                              All my other tanks were fine: 29 gal - pH 7.6, KH 3....10 gal - pH 7.8, KH 5....10 gal - pH 8.0, KH 6

                              Something obviously is driving the 56 gal down, so I will keep monitoring the tank testing twice a day. Possibly adding a tbsp or two of sodium bicarbonate if needed to neutralize the extra hydrogen ions. If more frequent changes are needed in the interim so be it.

                              Thanks for the input :)
                              Awesome, glad you got it figured out!!
                              "I think that God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability." -Oscar Wilde

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