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**eklikewhoa** · 07-20-2007, 09:16 AM

Re: Tropheus Annectens - Diesease Problem - Comments Plz

Isn't that similar to the problems with guppies or livebeares....where they become eggbound or whatever it is called? From the picture it almost looks like a female that died.

I also notice in the picture 3rd from the bottom the scales are protruding....possibly a bloat victim before you took possession of them?

Also when I dosed metro I did not use any salt.....there was one salt that should not be used with metro/clout and I wanna say it was aquarium salt but it could be either one of them....aquarium or epsom salt.

Man, I saw those annectens and fell in love!!!! those things are beauties....sorry this is happening to you. If it helps I have a few bottles of metro if you need it.

I would seriously do something about the trace or NitrIte and even the Nitrates though...possibly up the water changes. Maybe add a bag of Purigen in the meantime to help it some.

**bethesdaboy** · 07-20-2007, 09:33 AM

Re: Tropheus Annectens - Diesease Problem - Comments Plz

Sorry Geoff,
I have not come across a troph with symptoms like that.
I prefer pond clout, 1 tab per 100g.
Amquel Plus may be a quick answer for lower your nitrate and nitrite in a hurry.
Best,
Mike

**eklikewhoa** · 07-20-2007, 09:39 AM

Re: Tropheus Annectens - Diesease Problem - Comments Plz

I was gonna suggest Amquel+plus along with NovaAqua+plus which is the combo I use but I think you are using Prime, right Geoff?

**geoff_tropheus** · 07-20-2007, 09:46 AM

Re: Tropheus Annectens - Diesease Problem - Comments Plz

The scales protruding are a sympton as the fish develops the redness. The vent on this fish was male. The vent on the fish I lost day before yestruday was female.

EK, I never herd before, that it is not Ok to use salts with CLOUT. I am almost certain that Aquarium Salt is Epson Salt. Not 100% sure on that though..

If the infection is Bacterial, CLOUT is not every effective on Bacteria.

I am thinking of switching to EM Tablets (Erythromycin).

The salt will help with the Nitirite, this tank should have never had any Nitrite issues. I am going to have to put on a Seeded filter. I think some of my Nitrite issues are that the filter on the tank is a whisper filter, that was removed from service because of the charcoal. I need to get a seeded sponge filter or one of my Aqua Clears from the house.

Any others thoughts, I am definatley open to them.

**geoff_tropheus** · 07-20-2007, 09:49 AM

Re: Tropheus Annectens - Diesease Problem - Comments Plz

I use both water treatments, and prefer Amquel+ becuase I have used it for such a long time and am more comfortable with it. I started trying out Prime about a year ago. I like it too, but still call me old school, but I prefer AmquelPlus.

This tank was treated with Prime though.

**bethesdaboy** · 07-20-2007, 10:00 AM

Re: Tropheus Annectens - Diesease Problem - Comments Plz

Your bacteria in the tank are going to take a pounding with all the meds. I hope you have a lot of sponge filters handy to recover.
If so, load up on the antibiotics.

**eklikewhoa** · 07-20-2007, 10:01 AM

Re: Tropheus Annectens - Diesease Problem - Comments Plz

Epsom is magnesium suflphate and Aquarium salt/Kosher salt is something else I believe or at least the contents of it.

Either way I remember reading somewhere that one of the salt was not to be used with Metro/clout. As a safety precaution I would not use either.

Erythromycin works on claudo algae which is a bacteria and it seems to work good to nuke it.....so if it is then that would be a way to go or even maracyn-two.

**geoff_tropheus** · 07-20-2007, 10:27 AM

Re: Tropheus Annectens - Diesease Problem - Comments Plz

EK,

The MSDS sheet for Aquarium Pharmacuidicals Aquarium Salt says it is 100% Sodium Chloride. It is definately not epson salt. You were right on this.

I still not sure about the mix with it, with either Clout or Metro.

In reading the EM tablets treatment, this is found in the description..

Page Not Found - Aquarium Pharm

http://www.aquariumpharm.com/en_us/productCategory.asp?categoryname=Medications

E. M. Tablets™

For the fresh and saltwater treatment of erythromycin-susceptible bacterial diseases such as body slime, mouth fungus, furunculosis (open lesions), and hemorrhagic septicemia (blood spots without sign of skin damage). Can be used when introducing new fish into an aquarium. Can be used with any ich, fungus or parasite remedy to prevent secondary infection.

hemorrhagic septicemia sure sounds like a good possible, except why is it happening only at the anus, vent area? That makes it peculiar, I think if the Septicemia were really it, that it most likely would be random locations.

What yall be thinking..?

**geoff_tropheus** · 07-20-2007, 10:55 AM

Re: Tropheus Annectens - Diesease Problem - Comments Plz

Read this...

http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2007/02/14/fishdisease/

**Mzungu** · 07-20-2007, 12:22 PM

Re: Tropheus Annectens - Diesease Problem - Comments Plz

Malawi Bloat

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/malawi_bloat.php

I'm thinking the same thing about hemorrhagic septicemia and that it should look differently and occur on other parts of the fish, as well. I'm sure you've read the article I posted above, but it does describe a lot of your symptoms, especially the red spots around the anus.

**Delock** · 07-20-2007, 12:25 PM

Re: Tropheus Annectens - Diesease Problem - Comments Plz

Geoff, what did Alex say about the other ones?

**geoff_tropheus** · 07-20-2007, 12:56 PM

Re: Tropheus Annectens - Diesease Problem - Comments Plz

Alex said he has several fish with thie problem. Mostly they are Ikola, and Maswas and that none of his Annectens in the store show'd signs of this problem.

The Duboisi I got from him Saturday are perfectly fine and eating good for being a week from Africa.

He said that the other Annectens are looking ok, but he has been treating this with the BINOX and Aquarium Salt for the last 3-4 days.

He said that AC Aquaculture said to feed liquid food.

He said in his 15 years of importing fish, he never had to use liquid food. So, he's not sure this was really the method of treatment.

So, I am not sure what to do really. I just know, I do not want to have anymore sick fish. I also got to be careful with the MEDS cause the tank is experiencing a mini cycle.

**Zulaab** · 07-20-2007, 12:57 PM

Re: Tropheus Annectens - Diesease Problem - Comments Plz

From doing some research does this sound like your problem.

Body-Rot, Fin-Rot, Tail-Rot, patches of angry red tissue on body, hemorrhagic discoloration of vent (anal) area of abdomen; any or all of the above symptoms if not promptly treated may quickly deteriorate into the following terminal symptoms:- bloated appearance of abdomen (but scales Not standing off body), Exophthalmia ("Popeye"), abnormally high respiratory rate (i.e. faster than 90 gill beats/min.)

click on link to get more information on how to resolve this issue.

http://www.waterlife.co.uk/waterlife/treat2.htm

-- The main website I am reading is - http://www.waterlife.co.uk/waterlife/disease.htm

**geoff_tropheus** · 07-20-2007, 01:59 PM

Re: Tropheus Annectens - Diesease Problem - Comments Plz

Alex also told me that AC Aquaculture said to use Furaltadone.

Anyone know what med that is?