water ticks in friend's tank

[dblondfemme]

Okay, I had a fellow educator come to me with a problem. She bought an oscar and dumped the water from it's previous tank into her tank and the next thing she knows she has a massive water tick problem - diagnosed by both PetSmart and PetCo. They gave her meds... but I wondered if aquarium salt and/or Melafix/pimafix would help... is there a holistic approach to conquering them? Is there a cycle on these? Like if the adults are killed, will eggs hatch a week later? I wasn't too successful finding a lot of online info. Perhaps I didn't know where to look.

Sorry I have been away so long.... health not a positive thing right now.
I've missed you all.
Reb

[Mzungu]

I don't think I've ever heard of water ticks...do they mean water lice? And do you know what meds they gave your friend?

[dblondfemme]

no.... perhaps it is water lice. It caused a white coating on the glass and she said you coudl actually see them. I was clueless.

[Crude]

I don't like to be negative, but I don't trust most of what Petco/Petsmart say (though I think petco is more knowledgeable).

[dblondfemme]

Well, whatever it is, she was given the same diagnosis from both places. That is what I am basing it from. She could have perhaps gotten the words confused. I will have to speak with her

[dblondfemme]

They gave her Metronidazole to treat the (we will call it) Water Lice. She said she can see them, her first dose was Sunday and there were less in the tank today when she fed her one fish she has in the tank (a baby oscar). Her second dose is this evening and her last dose will be Thursday. She said if she still sees them Friday she is going to dump the tank, clean everything, and start over. I offered to allow her fish to stay here if she decides to do that. I also told her she could put him in a bucket with a bubbler lol.

[TonyO]

no.... perhaps it is water lice. It caused a white coating on the glass and she said you coudl actually see them. I was clueless.

What did they look like? Water lice (technically a crustacean, and not a true louse, which is an insect) and water ticks (I'm assuming these are actually water mites) should be identifiable if one can clearly see them.

[dblondfemme]

She said from a distance it looked like snow on the tank. Up close you could see them crawling around. (I have no experience with this because luckily.....my tanks....never mind.. not going to say it) . Whatever it is.... it is not on the fish

[eklikewhoa]

Sounds like a yummy snack for little fish.

[Complexity]

I wonder if she's got freshwater copepods? If so, they are completely harmless, and the fish will eat them. In fact, they are sometimes sought after as a nutritious fish food.

It's not uncommon for new hobbyists to think that anything unknown in the tank is dangerous and immediately want to kill the invader without taking the time to get a proper identification. However, this is not only unnecessary, but often harmful to the very fish they are trying to protect. Healthy aquariums are filled with many different forms of life beyond just the fish we put in there because the fish, decor, and even the water itself (yes, our drinkable tap water) contains living organisms. These organisms are virtually invisible in small numbers, but become noticeable as they multiply in the environment of a healthy tank.

Please show the page linked below to your friend. Have her use magnification to look at the "bugs" in her tank to try to match a picture with what she's got, taking note of the description of where they are generally seen (on the glass, substrate, etc.) and how they behave (i.e. fast, jerky swimming movements). Please take note of how many of these organisms are harmless and not a danger to the fish or aquarium as a whole. It is very possible your friend is doing more harm than good by using medication in the tank.

http://www.planetinverts.com/what_is_that_bug_in_my_aquarium.html

I will also second Crude's comment regarding using big box stores, such as Petco and PetSmart, for diagnosis purposes. These stores do not hire people based on their aquatic knowledge and experience. They hire sales people based on their sales experience. Many of these people do not have nor have ever had an aquarium of their own nor have they ever received any specialized training on fish care, most especially in regards to fish parasites and diseases. They try hard and mean well, but they simply do not have the knowledge.

As far as both stores giving the same diagnosis, it is possible the second store merely confirmed the first store's diagnosis without having a clue what any of it meant. All it takes is for your friend to say something along the lines of, "The guy at Petco thought they are water ticks; what do you think?" to get a simple, "Yes, that's what they are." And there you go. Two different places with the same diagnosis.

In truth, without either an example of the "bugs" (in a jar) or close, detailed pictures, it is extremely unlikely that anyone could have properly identified what's in your friend's tank. The fact that anyone claimed to do so only serves to further discredit that person as a knowledgeable source of information. If your friend doesn't believe me, then have her go back to those stores and ask that the sales people give the scientific name for the organisms they claim she has so we can all look it up properly in books and on the internet. I can guarantee you her question will be met with a blank, wide-eyed stare, indicating that they have absolutely no clue.

[Mzungu]

I'll have to agree with some of the things said. Since she said she can see them crawling around on the glass, and they form like a coating, it seems that they're some pretty small creatures. Water lice are actually pretty large, and though can be seen swimming around in the water are usually noticed hanging on to fish, kinda like fleas on our furry pets. :)

Whatever it is, though, tell her to continue treatment throughout its course, but after that, unless she can actually see them on her fish, then she probably shouldn't worry. And I don't think cleaning everything out and starting over will help. I've met too many people who've done that and all it caused was more problems.

[dblondfemme]

She did take samples to the stores. Even if this is a non threatening THING in her tank, she is going to dump if they don't go away by the weekend even though I have told her the problems she could be creating by doing so....and the possible harm she could cause her fish by dumping him in to a "new" unseasoned tank.

I appreciate the time and thoughts contributed. I haven't seen them. She did tell me she took two separate samples to each store. She could have easily um...mis-remembered the diagnosis. I asked her to bring a sample for me to see so I could look it up, but she has yet to do so.

Until later :-)

[TonyO]

In truth, without either an example of the "bugs" (in a jar) or close, detailed pictures, it is extremely unlikely that anyone could have properly identified what's in your friend's tank. The fact that anyone claimed to do so only serves to further discredit that person as a knowledgeable source of information. If your friend doesn't believe me, then have her go back to those stores and ask that the sales people give the scientific name for the organisms they claim she has so we can all look it up properly in books and on the internet. I can guarantee you her question will be met with a blank, wide-eyed stare, indicating that they have absolutely no clue.

To be truthful, I don't think the bulk of people in the hobby (even the most experienced) even know the genera for these organisms, much less the species. In fact, in many cases, one would probably need a microscope, and even then, it may require an expert. I think both groups (water lice and water ticks/mites) probably actually have multple genera, and most hobbyists wouldn't even get that far. Getting it to a specific taxon like mite, isopod, etc., is probably the best most of us are going to do without a better background. . . and I say that as someone who spent a great deal of time checking out insects under a scope.

[Complexity]

Understood, TonyO. I wasn't meaning the person had to be that specific. However, they should be able to give a general name for the organism. For example, water lice is from the genus Asellus. That's specific enough for a person to look up the organism in question to begin to determine two very important things: (1) is it harmful, and (2) how to control or eradicate it, if needed. If a more specific identification is needed, at least the person will be pointed in the right direction to find that out.

dblondfemme, it sounds like your friend is just freaked out by whatever is in her tank, regardless of whether they're harmful or not. She just wants them gone. Unfortunately, without a good ID, it's difficult to say whether the medication she's using will have any affect on them.

All you can do is offer her the best information you have and leave it up to her as to whether she'll take it or not. Some people just do not want to educate themselves on proper aquarium care no matter how hard you try. The issue resolves itself quickly as their fish die, the tank dries up, and they give up the hobby. It's unfortunate, but it happens. I hope that's not the case here because your friend will have even more issues down the road while caring for an oscar, most especially because oscars grow to a very large size and require very large tanks with heavy filtration. But maybe your friend will learn over time.

Please let us know how it turns out. I'm curious to know if the "bugs" are killed by the meds and all ends up well or not. I'll continue to hope for the best.

[TonyO]

Understood, TonyO. I wasn't meaning the person had to be that specific. However, they should be able to give a general name for the organism. For example, water lice is from the genus Asellus. That's specific enough for a person to look up the organism in question to begin to determine two very important things: (1) is it harmful, and (2) how to control or eradicate it, if needed. If a more specific identification is needed, at least the person will be pointed in the right direction to find that out.

I figured that's what you meant, but I just wanted everyone to be clear that being that specific isn't always an option (or necessary). If they can get Asellus, they're doing pretty good in my book (believe me, I taught taxonomy labs, I'd take Asellus! LOL!). "Water lice" should be sufficient to get us to there. As a side note, the Isopoda also contains the Family Armadillidiidae, a favorite of mine. But I digress. . .

Please let us know how the meds turn out. I'm curious because I thought Metro was usually primarily anti-bacterial. I could be wrong about that, because I haven't had to use it in a long time.