Help needed ASAP with Angelfish Please!!

[luvmycichlids]

First time fish Mom in deep trouble! My Angelfish spawned and have free swimming fry now (as of 10/22). This is my first time with Angelfish fry and I overfed so I'm now having issues.

I moved out all fry to a temporary tank and plan on doing 50% water changes daily with their set up. But the parents need help in their aquarium ASAP!!

Parents are in a 20g tall with a mixture of live & plastic plants and nerite snails. Over last few days a couple leaves on my crypt have died off and today I noticed m little horned nerites looked like they were dying and Momma Angel has 1 cloudy eye!! Water is cloudy. Up until night before last I was scared to do water changes fearing the fry might get eaten. I did a small water change night before last and today I did a 30% water change. When I did the water changes I used Amquel and added bacteria (Stability) and today I also added an additional filter to the tank (one filter has carbon/zeo mixture). I have a monitor for Amonia levels and so far things are good.

Water is still cloudy; female Angelfishs eye looks some what better. Since raising the fry the adults have not been eating hardly at all. I went ahead and fed them today and they ate for the first time in several days. Hopefully this helped for them not to be quite as stressed out. Both are acting more normal since water change. What should I do? I have Melafix, just not sure if I should use due to the water issues but I don't want things to worsen either. HELP PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[mistahoo]

How often do you do water changes? Do you always use AmQuel and Stability with each water change? I think just the AmQuel will do; using Stability isn't a must. Have you added anything to the tank recently (chemicals, ferts, livestock, etc)? Any chemicals being sprayed near the tank (air freshener, windex, purfume, cologne, etc)? What kind of filtration do you have on the tank? It might not be enough? Ammonia isn't the only thing in the water that is harmful to livestock. There's also Nitrites and also Nitrates (if they get extremely high, not often the case if you have plants). What are your parameters on those? What is your light schedule? What type of lights are you using? What is the wattage on the lighting? Light intensity, photo periods, type of lighting can all have different effects on your plants.

A lot of times any sudden changes will cause a fish's eye to become cloudy. I would just keep up the water change schedule to keep pristine water and they will be fine. Take care to not overfeed or anything else that may cause the water to become fouled. You can use the Melafix, if you're that worried about the fish. I don't see much of a problem with dosing, but honestly, when something like that happens to me, I know I'm letting my water go too long without a water change. Also, I would just dump the carbon. Just my opinion but, I believe carbon is completely useless in a filter unless you are trying to remove medication (which in most cases a simple water change will do). It does keep the water clear, but clear water isn't always safe water. After a while, carbon can have negative effects on your tank as it absorbs pollutants it can also leech those pollutants back into the water.

[armthehomeless]

Sounds like poor water quality due to overfeeding.

If you have a test kit, test the water. Nitrate, nitrite, and ammonia.

I'd continue water changes daily.

[troy tucker]

Keep up the water changes and do 50% also if you have a 1gal. jar or a large glass vase it just needs to be 1 gl. or bigger. you can move the fry in to a jar with an air stone you will need to change the water daily 50% but in the long run its easierto keep up with... for about 12 weeks.

[luvmycichlids]

Thanks for the quick answers; ok, let me try to answer everything!! :)
Water changes are monthly, was due for a change when spawning happened. These guys have tried to kill each other over the eggs before and this was like their 11 or 12th spawn so I didn't do a water change until night before last and the big one today. I had planned on doing a water change but the eggs actually, by some miracle did not get eaten this time again!
Amquel & Stability- Always use Amquel with water changes, sometimes I use Stability at the same time, sometimes not. I like to use the Amquel because it helps with the Nitrite & Nitrates, rather be safe than sorry and I figure it can't hurt. Tonight I figured (from reading) I have a bacteria excess so I figured the tank needed the Stability especially with the water change. Have not added anything recently to the tank and its covered so nothing got in it.
Tank has a Tetra EX-45 on it and this evening I added a Whisper 10I for added filtration. Have actually been trying not to use carbon and this tank didn't have it in use until today. Carbon habit is a hard one to break but I'm trying! This tank has been super clear and everyone in it has been doing great until just this past week!
I'm really bad with the lights and they are not on a timed schedule. Only have a standard hood light (Aqua Glo T8 15w). Currently just have Anubias, moss balls and a crypt. My Sword and Val I had to move to another tank with more light.
Have not tested water parameters just am using my Ammonia monitor tag (which is pretty acurate).

How much of a daily water change should I do? I was worried about causing a cycling issue because of the water changes. Should I use the Stability with each water change along with my Amquel, I'm thinking it will speed up the clearing process? If water changes are the best way to go I will do it, I don't like using any meds natural or otherwise! Have not had this type of issue in years! Using a turkey baster to feed fry baby brine shrimp is a totally new experience so even though I was using a small amount I still managed to go overbooard. Overfeeding only seems to happen when I have fry, I had water issues (less severe) when I had Molly fry in another tank. I need to figure the fry feeding thing out for this doesn't happen again!

[luvmycichlids]

Thanks Troy!
Have the fry in a 1g set up for a Betta, etc. Actually just got this used set up yesterday; I was planning on letting my Angels raise 1/2 and me trying my hand at raising the other 1/2. This set up has an under gravel filter and aquarium gravel and I thought the filter would be a good idea to use under the circumstances. Between the water level and the bubbles I don't think any fry could get down the intake tube but I'm not sure. Should I take out the under gravel filter and the gravel? The hood light is a little "night light" bulb should I leave it on 24/7 for heat? Glad to know 50% water change is the correct amount on a daily basis! Am using 1/2 cube of the frozen bbs mixed with water for feeding one day and the next I'm using First Bites. [B]With all the trouble I've gotten into with overfeeding, any suggestions on amounts of food for the feedings 3x a day? Maybe a teaspoon of the water/food mixture?[ /B]

[mistahoo]

How much of a daily water change should I do? Daily? For the fry, I would do about 25-50%. I was worried about causing a cycling issue because of the water changes. Cycling issues wouldn't be a problem. Most of your bacteria should be in the substrate or your filter media. Should I use the Stability with each water change along with my Amquel, I'm thinking it will speed up the clearing process? Generally, I've only heard of Stability being used during the beginning stages of the cycling process. It wouldn't hurt, but it would be an unneeded cost. Just using the AmQuel should suffice. If water changes are the best way to go I will do it, I don't like using any meds natural or otherwise! Same here. I try to stick to water changes, salt, heat, and anything but meds. Seems to be doing me good so far. Have not had this type of issue in years! Using a turkey baster to feed fry baby brine shrimp is a totally new experience so even though I was using a small amount I still managed to go overbooard. Overfeeding only seems to happen when I have fry, I had water issues (less severe) when I had Molly fry in another tank. I need to figure the fry feeding thing out for this doesn't happen again! Try a medicine/eye dropper or a syringe. They are much smaller and easier to control how much is fed. I don't like the whole idea of baby brine shrimp because of the hassle of keeping them alive, reproducing, etc. There are many other food alternatives for fry that I found to be much simpler to create a culture of. I also find that a turkey baster is much too large for fry feedings and I only use a turkey baster or airline tubing for water changes in a fry tank.

Reply in red above.

[mistahoo]

Thanks Troy!
Have the fry in a 1g set up for a Betta, etc. Actually just got this used set up yesterday; I was planning on letting my Angels raise 1/2 and me trying my hand at raising the other 1/2. This set up has an under gravel filter and aquarium gravel and I thought the filter would be a good idea to use under the circumstances. Between the water level and the bubbles I don't think any fry could get down the intake tube but I'm not sure. Should I take out the under gravel filter and the gravel? UGF and gravel should be fine. I like to leave fry/grow-out tanks bare bottom because it makes it easier to keep the water in pristine conditions. The hood light is a little "night light" bulb should I leave it on 24/7 for heat? You could, but I wouldn't leave any light on 24/7 just because it messes with a fish. Although they are subject to your will, I think your fish would thank you to give them a somewhat regular light schedule. Glad to know 50% water change is the correct amount on a daily basis! The amount for a water change is solely up to you. Some don't like to do 50%+ because of the huge difference in water chemistry. Am using 1/2 cube of the frozen bbs mixed with water for feeding one day and the next I'm using First Bites. Depending on how much fry, I would try to do 1/4 a cube of bbs for about 5 fry (just an estimate, I would assume you would know much more because they've spawned several times before)? [B]With all the trouble I've gotten into with overfeeding, any suggestions on amounts of food for the feedings 3x a day? Maybe a teaspoon of the water/food mixture?[ /B] If your filtration is just a UGF, I would feed about 1ml of water/food mixture 2-3 times a day. If your feedings are much smaller and less frequent, you won't need to do daily water changes, but it is definitely a good idea to do so.

Reply in red above

[luvmycichlids]

Daily water changes on my 20g and on my little 1g fry tank? Never though about the eye droper or syringe, great idea. I'm using frozen bbs (this time!) and Baby Bites, I alternate daily. How does the airline tubing work, someone else mentioned doing this and it sounds like a great idea when working with fry? Thanks for your help & time mistahoo!! :)

[troy tucker]

For water changes on the fry. Get you a 5g bucket. fill it the day befor you need it. you can use amquel but you don't have to. this is for the fry only. use the bucket for all new water. every day 50% water changes help the fry grow. you don't need to worry about cycle the water changes are to fast and the tank is always fresh.
The fry tank should be clean bottom. Why? You can see how much they didn't eat. you will need to clean any uneaten food after ever feeding. you can use an air hose for that to vac. out the bottom and to do the water changes. But The fry will get caught in substate and the under growned filter and die.
Do keep the lite. you need to see. As for heat keep the fry tank in a warm place. that should be enough with the lite on half the day.
Feeding fry with a syringe so you can see how much your feeding. also it will help clean up after feeding. If you need one I have a feeding tool. you can have.

[luvmycichlids]

Thanks again Troy!! Ok, fry set up has been re-done and they ate set until tomorrow. My 5g bucket is in use so I put aside a 1g container for water. Thanks for the offer of the syringe but I actually have one. My dog has epilepsy and has to have liquid compounded meds, they always come with extra syringes, so I usually have a few unused ones around. How do you clean using air tubing?

[luvmycichlids]

20g tall is clear today & Mom Angels eye is looking a little better. Go ahead with water changes until eye is better, right?

[mistahoo]

Help needed ASAP with Angelfish Please!!

Correct keep up water changes. My water change schedule was 100% 2-3 days on a 100g when I had a carbon bottle. the airline tubing works just like any other vinyl tubing. Suck on the hose to create a siphon and just use the tube to suck up poo and leftover foods. I like to put fry in a bare-bottom glass tank or something transparent to make cleaning easier.

[mistahoo]

Help needed ASAP with Angelfish Please!!

Water changes in the 20g can be daily until the eye is fully recovered, but not necessary. 50% 2-3 day water changes should suffice. Also if your water has chlorine, it's a good idea to use AmQuel in all water changes even for the fry.

[allysangels]

a few thoughts-
1- to clean using airline tubing, just use the small gauge tubing as a siphon, stick one end under the surface of the water, and suck on the other end to produce a siphon. i recommend draining into a white or clear container, to make it easier to see (and rescue) any fry that get sucked out.
2- amquel is my favorite treatment for water changes too!
3- the stability might be a BAD idea, as you think you are experiencing a bacterial bloom that is causing the cloudiness. think about it, if your problem is TOO MUCH bacteria, is it really a good idea to add MORE?
4- do away with the carbon.
5- once a month water changes are not often enough. try doing 30-50% at least weekly.
6- pull those plastic plants! lol. real ones are SO much better, as you already know since you have some.