Bacteria or parasite???

[Coop]

Ok so I know that I need to give as much info as possible but don't have all the exact numbers...

I will ill start off by saying all my parameters are good. Nitrate is below 30ppm, which I can't seem to ever get it to zero out. Other than that water quality is great. I have mostly cichlids, with a few others. The others are a couple of different plecos, snails, eels, clown loaches, catfish, and a puffer. My tank is a 90 bowfront and has been established for over a year. It isn't overstocked and I do weekly 70% water changes. I use seachem stability and prime when doing water changes, to include aquarium salt. I have a 48" led light (which I only run for about 6 hours during the day at random times, and the night blue light I run all night), 48" 50/50 blue actnic light (I only run for about 2 hours at feeding time), eheim pro 3 filtration, hydor wavemaker with two 1400's, fluval Q2 air pump, hydor inline heater, caribsea white sand, holy rock, driftwood, fake plants, and I think that's the just of the tank. I feed mainly new life spectrum pellets and once or twice a week I will give frozen bloodworms. The puffer is still acclimating so I'm giving a few snails (live but crush shell a little) and shrimp (frozen).


All the fish have done awesome together, but about a month ago I had one of my shelldwellers die from no apparent cause. No attacks and all have been eating healthy. Then I noticed one of my red zebras being aggressive toward the other, which was odd. Has been going on for a couple of weeks. The remaining shelldweller I noticed last week tends to be breathing harder and not as active. This is the only fish doing that other than the red zebra. The water parameters are still good. Then I added two young clown plecos last week and today one is dead. After closure examination I can see the red zebra getting picked on looks to have reddish area inside gills. Now I'm starting to wonder if there is some sort of bad bacteria in the tank. I added a bs by fahaka puffer last week with the plecos and I understand they can possibly have parasites, at least from what I read. I would think the parasites would have worked out of his system in the lfs. So should I treat my tank for a bacterial infection and parasites? If so what chemicals are the best to use, and brand? Thanks all for any help, I love this tank and don't want any more deaths....

[mnemenoi]

Hmm, quite a perplexing issue. I'll try and cover each question individually and offer my recommendations in the end,
1. Shelldweller death - They are Tangs and can be a lot less forgiving about water quality issues, likely the barometer in the tank. Could have been caused by territorial issues, without species I am wary of that as an answer though. Could also be an oxygenation issue, they like heavily oxygenated higher temp tanks. The second breathing heavily is strange.
2. Clown Pleco death - Could be a water quality issue, but I am leaning toward a territorial issue with the zebras and possibly shellies. Stress is likely the cause, but could be something further. Young plecos can be overly sensitive.
3. Fahaka Puffer - All are wild caught and are assumed to have internal parasites when they come in. Most are nemotodes and internal worms. Easiest method of treatment is soaking food in parasite guard and garlic before feeding. This method targets the specific fish. It would take months to possibly years to effect the other fish that intensely. A general parasite guard dosing of the tank is certainly not out of the question, but I think it might be unnecessary. I myself would look at Nitrate levels, even with decent water changes. Our Fahaka required 75% WC 2-3 times a week to keep her parameters in order and the are Nitrate factories. All the affected fish are sensitive to rising Nitrates. Keeping it below a 30ppm is hard, especially in a tank with other fish.

I would certainly recommend removing the shell dwellers and plecos. The Fahaka will eventually maim/eat/kill them. Ours tears through anything and any movement along the bottom warrants investigation. She kills 2-3 large giant danios every week or two even with a steady diet. Siamese algae eaters have proven to be effective though and she only got 4 of 10 and they have learned to avoid her well. Eventually it will crush shred the shells and whatever yummy morsel is hiding in it, so I'd worry about the shellies. The plecos rely to much on hiding and they have terrific eyes. Just my recommendations and each puffer is different, just trying to help out and see problems before they arise. Good luck either way.

[Coop]

Thanks a lot for info! The shellie's were never bothered by any of the others. They are territorial though around their escargot shells they are currently by. The one red zebra is now being a pain to the others. I might have to remove him from the tank. All the others are pretty chill. They don't even bother the puffer. My oxygen is always very sufficient as I have always had a bigger air pump than needed. I think there is a bacteria issue though because of the one zebra having the red gills and breathing hard as well as the other shellie breathing hard. I bought some Maracyn treatment packs tonight so Friday night I will do a cleaning and water change, then start the treatment. Kinda hate to pull the let red zebra though because he has great orange color, but I'm not gonna chance losing my other fish due to an ***... I'm just going to have to keep him in a breeder partition until I get a hospital tank. Definitely not easy to catch this sucker. Thanks again for your help!

[Coop]

Ok need further advice. I cleaned aquarium last night and did a 90% water change. After I put everything back I treated tank with Mardel Maracyn. I stopped at lfs and got the Mardel Maracyn 2 today and plan on starting that treatment tonight with the Mardel Maracyn second treatment. I'm dropping temp to 75, keeping lights off as much as possible, bumping air pump to max, and keeping wavemaker on constantly.

My question is, can I still feed my fish or should I not? How long can they go without food before trying to eat each other?

[morpheus]

i saw your maracyn and maracyn 2 thread before this one, so this answers my question what you are treating...but i replied a little to that thread. mnemenoi is really good with advice on many topics.

i normally say if the fish are still readily eating then its ok to feed while treating. some fish get very stressed during dosing which causing food to accumulate at the bottom and decay, so it varies from fish to fish. just ensure to remove carbon if instructed or it burns out

many fish can go quite a while without eating. i mainly have cichlids too (africans, SA and CA). over the summer i went on vacation and the people caring for pets never dumped in the pre portioned food bags...so mine went about 10 days. they were more testy for a bit towards eachother, but no casualties. i have never owned a puffer though...so again....varies fish to fish if they become aggressive or not and how fast

[Coop]

Thank you. Yea I went ahead and fed them. Didn't want to cause any further stress, although they don't seem to be bothered by treating the tank. They seem completely fine. I don't have any carbon on my tank. I might add some to my filter Friday when I do a complete cleaning of the tank though. That sucks they didn't feed them when all they had to do was dump a baggy out. Don't think I would have them watch my fish anymore haha.

[morpheus]

....That sucks they didn't feed them when all they had to do was dump a baggy out. Don't think I would have them watch my fish anymore haha.

They were mainly caring for the gecko and hedgehog. i just think they didnt realize i pre-packed food and left it on top of the tank (and not on the counter). i am looking into auto-feeders for next time, or just put fish food right next to the other animal foods

[Coop]

I have an eheim double auto feeder and I'm up in arms if I will use it anymore. I have a canopy so the top of the tank is open and all the moisture will clog up the food and feeder. Might use if I just go out of town for a few days but not something I would do for a week of so. Only down fall to the feeder.