ICK tank question

[cope]

I am pretty sure I have aquired ICK... I think I got it when I 1) put a live plant in the tank...2) put some feeder fish in the tank   3) put some clown loaches in the tank..... One if not all of these I think started the problem...

All my tanks are super clean, clear, and have had no troubles YET..... except this one tank....

When it stated I noticed the tank became murky.. and I assumed it to be because of the live plant I got from Petsmart.. (I did not treat the plant because I did not know to treat it) but ever since adding that plant, the water has been cloudy...

the same day I put feeder fish in the tank .. and thought nothing of it..... just dumped them in... I will not use feeder fish in the future because of what I am dealing with now...

I also had a huge clown loach and was told they needed company... so I got 3 medium loaches and added them to the tank.... all this in a matter of 2 days....

so I start to notice the loaches with the white specks... real bad..... and one bala shark with a couple specks... so I watch..... and notice they are flashing... Keep in mind.. I am only into aquariums now for about 3 months... so I have no clue....

I do the research... I get a small 10 gallon tank and remove the loaches and treat the tank...... of coarse the huge loach died.... .. I had the loaches in the small tank and they never moved........ so after about 3 days... I think I should put them back into the original tank   60 gallon.... and all but one have died.... so I moved the last one to a bucket.... expect him to die soon.....

Now the hospital tank has turned into a regular tank with small angel fish and some shrimp....

Now I get to the point......   I understand you treat the TANK and not the fish for ICK... so my question is what do you do with the fish while treating the tank? no way I can put my fish from my 60 into the 10 gallon.... and if I did.. doesn't that infect the new tank....... and if you were to move them to a bigger tank.... when you put them back into the clean (no ick) tank.. doesn't it get re-infected with the fish you put back in.....   Is it better to just leave the fish in the infected tank and cross your fingers and hope it will cure with the meds?  I have bigger tanks but I am afraid to move my fish because I do not want to make a problem in a good clean tank.....

since keeping fish... I have only lost about 5 out of about 80 fish I have... I think that is a pretty good record.... so I do not want to loose these fish.. I have watched them grow... and they are getting big.. big enough to move to a bigger tank.. But I feel like the ICK is holding my fish hostage.....

and one more question.... If I was to have a dedicated quarinteen tank.... how would you cycle that tank if you only use it for every now and then fish.... do you keep fish in the quarinteen tank as there home and use it on occassion for a new or sick fish?   and if you were to not keep fish in it on a constant basis... wouldn't your bebificial bacteria eventually die...

[b]I KNOW IT'S A LOT OF QUESTIONS.... BUT I AM SURE SOMEONE HAS A SIMPLE ANSWER...... Thanks in advance... Ek  go easy on me.... I am still learning.... LOL....

[Mzungu]

Re: ICK tank question

It most likely came from the feeders or the new clown loach.

What did you treat the 10g with? Did you use a treatment that's safe for scaleless fishes, such as the loaches? That might be why they died.

And yes, keep the fish in the quarantine tank until the treatment is over, which usually lasts about 1-2 weeks. The ich parasite has a life cycle of about that time, depending on the conditions of the water, and it won't do any good to treat for only part of the time, as the ich will still be alive in one form or another.

Sorry I can't answer your questions in greater length, kind of in a hurry, but I wanted to give you at least some ideas.  :)

Oh, and for the quarantine tank, I always keep an extra filter around, or at least some media that I can separate from an existing filter in case I need to set up another tank in a hurry. That way you won't have to go through a cycle.

Good luck, and sorry about your fish.  :(

[rrocket2002]

Re: ICK tank question

Well, EK's answer would be to "thump" the fish.    

Some basic info, I'm sure others will respond as well.

When you are thinking of adding some new roommates you should have a QT setup for them.  After 2-5 days and no problems, you can introduce them into their new home.   Ideally you want to have a hospital tank for the occassional problem like what you are having now.  So having a small tank up and running is a good thing and it can become your QT for new additions when need be.  

Loaches have a reputation for not handling stress very well when they are being relocated and become succeptable<spelling to Ick.  

When you are treating for Ick, you have to treat and do water changes and so on for 3-5 days.  Raising the temp is suggested and adding some aquarium salt.  Water changes are important.  

If you spot a fish with what looks like Ick and no others have it, them relocate that fish and start treating him.  You will want to treat the original tank for a day or two just to be safe.  

Hope that helps.  Others can explain better than I can.

[PhishPhreek]

Re: ICK tank question

Try not to buy new fish unless you have an isolation tank already set up.
*** Set up all your unused tanks before you go to a fish auction ***
use old water from your healthy tank and fill you existing tank with new water
                     (like doing a partial water change)
Set up a tub with prevenative meds for your feeders and
only scoop out 1 less than your fish will eat in a single meal.

[cope]

Re: ICK tank question

so this extra tank..... do you set it up in the garage....I do not have a dedicated fish room..(yet) so placement of a extra tank would need to be strategic... as the first QT tank became a regular tank over night....
would you say set this tank up for a couple days and then take it down?  do you not put any gravel.... just maybe a HOB filter... Light?  or just a cover?   I guess I could set up a fish room at my office.... what would be a good size.. 10, 20, 40?

my wife does love the fish... but starting to worry about my obcession and is worried I will have more tanks than I need..  I already have 4 and looking to get a 300 gallon next.....

[Mzungu]

Re: ICK tank question

... as the first QT tank became a regular tank over night....

 That's what happens to every one of my Qtanks!  

[Zulaab]

Re: ICK tank question

A hospital tank for me is a Walmart plastic tote holding about 30 gallons.  Then fill it the point its holding about 20 gallons, dump a heating in there, a large airstone and if you are nice to the fish a sponge filter.
This gives me 100% the capability to store it after use, make it smell as bad as possible from the medication because when I am done, I clean it out and no problems.
Air and heat are supplied.. and if you are nice to the fish, put a few rocks in the tank.
Medicate etc while they are in there.   I am also known to take 10g igloo's and do the same with those.. (just had a fungus outbreak 3 weeks ago and I used to igloo... you remove the fish after 7 days of treatment and inspect them so you know what they look like.

Now quickly on ICK....

What EVER you do..  the MAIN tank HAS to be medicated.   The bacteria/virus is only vulnerable during one stage of their life.. the free swimming stage.. this is while they look for other hosts.  They will die off if there are no living hosts to attach to in about 3 weeks, but who wants to remove fish etc...   Since you cannot do much about killing them off except in the free swimming stage.. here are how most people quickly rids their tank of the disease.

1.  50% water change.  (remember free swimming is the only time you can kill them.. why kill twice the number when a water change will resolve that number)
2.  Medicate.  THE MAIN TANK.
3.  Heat tank to 85 degrees (The lifecycle shortens from birth to free swimming from 10 days to 7 days)  Remember only free swimming can you kill the problem
4.  Wait 7 days.
5.  50% water change (right now you should have the MAX free swimming ICK)
6.  Medicate again
7.  Wait another 7 days.
8.  50% water change.
9.  Lower temp to 80
10. Wait and observe fish over the next 7 days
11. 50% water change... add carbon and rid your tank of left over medication.

[rrocket2002]

Re: ICK tank question

Take a breath there Jesper...LOL

I don't think I ever had to treat longer than 7 days.

[cope]

Re: ICK tank question

thank you for the responses... I will take everything into consideration.. and move on the info supplied.... I did do a 50% water change last night and then re-treated.... also the tank is at 82 degress.... can the fish survive at 85?   is that too hot.. and do you leave it at 85 for a long time?       my normal range on temp is 74-78......  
tiger barbs, bala sharks, tin foil, silver dollars, pleco..    thanks again... Cope..

[Zulaab]

Re: ICK tank question

I treat for 14 days so just to make sure.. its a easy disease to get rid of, but its a disease that easily can come back if there is a problem.

[Brownsnoutuk]

Re: ICK tank question

Jesper, you left out adding Aquarium Salt.

[Mzungu]

Re: ICK tank question

What did you treat the 10g with? Did you use a treatment that's safe for scaleless fishes, such as the loaches? That might be why they died.

[Spot86t]

Re: ICK tank question

I've found that loaches are extremely difficult to save once they have a bad case of ich.  The fact that they're so sensitive to many medications (as are all scaleless fish) makes treatment difficult.  It seems to me that loaches will be the first to contract the disease out of all other fish in the tank.  I've had fair success with Kordon's "Ich Attack" which is an organic treatment and safe for all fish - scaleless or not.  I always dose at fulll strength - it hasn't hurt any fry who've been exposed to it.  I raise the tank temp to between 85 and 90 and do water changes twice daily - dosing the clean water I'm putting back in the tank with the Ich Attack and salt (at the rate of 3 tablespoons per 10 gal.)  Vacuuming gravel is important too, the ich cysts settle in there before they hatch out, and since loaches like to hide under rocks and in the gravel - I think (my personal opinion) that's why they seem prone to be the first to catch it.

I would lean more toward the feeders or loaches as the cause for this.  Always get your feeders from a source who actually takes care of them.  Most shops don't and you'll see sick feeders in their tanks all the time.   I can bring you another load of feeder guppies - mine are maintained just like the rest of my fish - since I have some of my other "nice fish" in with them I make sure to treat them just as well as all my others.  I like all my fish to be happy - even if they are "just" feeder fish!  

If you have room in your stand, you could set up a little QT or Feeder tank (10 gal would probably be fine) underneath with an air-driven sponge filter, and a light.  Doesn't even need to be a fancy light or anything - mainly just to give them normal "day/night"cycles.  A plain glass lid if you really felt the need for a lid at all.  Heck, you could even use a plastic tote for this!  Just don't forget to feed them and if the tote has an airtite lid - you'll need to put some some air holes in it.

[nacra99]

Re: ICK tank question

Ich on scaleless fish can be quite a problem, but treated with malachite green although not as quick acting as copper treatments.
The regular copper based treatments will not work as it may kill the fish or shrimp.
Remember to raise the temperature above 80deg if possible to speed up the protozoan life cycle.

Since your main tank is already infected, i suggest that you treat everything together in the main tank.

QT tank is a must for all new fish!

[Zulaab]

Re: ICK tank question

Spot !!   -- Kordon's "Ich Attack" is the BOMB !!  Its what I have used in the past, and I have a bottle of it on standby in case a breakout ever occurs.