pH and kH crash - HIGH gH

[imagirlgeek]

Let me start by saying that I am not a novice when it comes to the hobby, but I am definitely not an expert either.  Having said that, somebody help me understand what the EDIT is going on with my tanks!

Here's the history.  Everything was pretty stable for, well, forever.  We are always good about water changes, not overfeeding, testing the water.  We haven't changed anything.  No additional fish, no filtration changes, none of the fish are dead.  

The only thing I can think is that the water plant is jacking with the water and whatever they are doing doesn't show up on my test kits.  Something has happened that has caused the kH to reach critically low levels on every tank in the house, which of course, caused the pH to plummet.  The pH dropping so much, so fast, has caused the 2 big tanks to cycle.  The gH has spiked and is unusually high.  I should mention that a friend of mine who lives in the same area did a water change a couple of weeks ago, went and took a nap, and woke up to several dead fish.  He had done nothing out of the ordinary.  He tested his water to find that his pH had dropped to 6.5 from a normal 7.8 - 8.0.

Now, what do I do to fix this??  If the water company has done something to remove the buffers in the tap water, am I going to have to supplement from now on?

If you want/need to see the exact readings to offer some guidance, let me know.  I have them all.

[PhishPhreek]

Re: pH and kH crash - HIGH gH

Check with the water company and find out if there is anything unusual in the way they are treating the water.
Huricane prep or construction or cleaning the equipment / pipes.  
If you're lucky you can get them to notify you before the water gets to your place.  

[eklikewhoa]

Re: pH and kH crash - HIGH gH

Did you test the tap water?
I would test it and then have a bucket full of the tap water sit over night and test that as well.


Possibly some sort of acid leaching into the water? excess build up of detritus?

[imagirlgeek]

Re: pH and kH crash - HIGH gH

Yeah, but I don't remember exactly what they were.  I just remember that the pH out of the tap was actually higher than the pH in my tanks right now.  Give me a few minutes and I'll test the tap water and post the values.

I'll leave some water in a tub and test that tomorrow.

[imagirlgeek]

Re: pH and kH crash - HIGH gH

Out of the tap:

kH 180 ppm or 10 dH
gH 75 ppm or 4 dH
pH 7.8
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0
Chlorine 0

Man...something is clobbering my water, and out of the tap looks better than what's in the tanks.

EK - I have no idea what could be leaching into the tanks...any suggestions?

[eklikewhoa]

Re: pH and kH crash - HIGH gH

Did you test all of the tanks? You have a lot of tanks so if they all measure the same then they all have a common problem but if it's just a few then we can narrow it down some.

[imagirlgeek]

Re: pH and kH crash - HIGH gH

I've got readings for:

240 - ph 7.0, gh 233, kh 54
210 - ph 7.0, gh 143, kh 54
135 - ph  7.2, gh 215, kh 72
135 - ph 7.2, gh 286, kh 54
100 - ph 7.0, gh 286, kh 36
75 - ph 7.0, gh 340, kh 36
75 - ph 7.0, gh 143, kh 54

I didn't test anything smaller than that.

[eklikewhoa]

Re: pH and kH crash - HIGH gH

What additives are you using? Have you tried letting some of the tap water sit and testing it afterwards?

Those numbers look way off from what you are getting out the tap!

Honestly I would not jump into buffering the water in case it decides to raise back to normal levels.....what I would do is increase aeration by installing any venturi's on the powerheads to force them to bubble. Raise all outputs and if possible circulate the room some.

I remember you guys smoke in the house....all your tanks seem to be suffering so it makes it somewhat easier depending on how you look at. Either water source or something in the house.

[Zulaab]

Re: pH and kH crash - HIGH gH

Traci --  I dont want to sound stupid, but here are a few other things I would look at real quick.

Water temp to all of your tanks ?
Looking at some charts real quick it looks to me that your GH is good but your KH is low.
Have you buffered anything in the past ?

From cichlid-forum.com

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/water_chemistry.php

To raise KH and pH, add baking soda (sodium bicarbonate). A baseline recommendation is 1 teaspoon per 5 gallons of water (dissolve in a cup of aquarium water if adding directly to the tank). For an established aquarium, remember to take this slowly as fish are highly sensitive to pH changes.

-- with what I see your results to be like here is the reciept on how to lower your KH without touching your GH
Injecting carbon dioxide (CO2)
Use reverse osmosis (RO) water. You can mix tap water with reverse osmosis water to achieve the desired kH.

So in a water change you have done lately, possibly the water company blended soft or soft and acidic rain water to our tap causing a short period of time to have lower than normal KH readings ?

[eklikewhoa]

Re: pH and kH crash - HIGH gH

Her tap water readings are avg./normal so it's probably happening after the fact......some sort of biological action is forming an acid or it's being introduced to the tank which is using up/breaking down the KH and with that your pH is allowed to crash as well.

[Zulaab]

Re: pH and kH crash - HIGH gH

Yeah EK, I read that..

1.  She does not list when she did her last water change.
2.  She does not list when the water testing was done on her tap water..   I am personally thinking the issue is temporary and that the issue was some small thunderstorm that potentially came north of us but still added enough fresh clear water to our already low water tables we have and this was was used in the last few days.. potentially giving her these issues.

Traci sorry for going off my rocker here.. (you know I am getting old and senile) but could you be so kind to tell me the last time you did a water change on your tanks and when did you do the water tests of your tap water last and the time before then ?

[eklikewhoa]

Re: pH and kH crash - HIGH gH

Agree....no time frame for these occurrences.

I would not add anything to try and band-aid the problem though....if this is just a temporary fluke then once it overcomes it then the parameters would sky rocket which would be much more lethal/detrimental then where it is at now.

[imagirlgeek]

Re: pH and kH crash - HIGH gH

On the 240 and 210, the entire tanks crashed, so I've been doing small partial water changes every couple of days.  The ammonia and nitrites were spiked to the point I thought there was a dead fish trapped under a rock or something.  But everyone is accounted for.  I think the Amquel+ and Prime are the only things that have saved the fish.  Then I read that in extreme pH crashes, it can cause the tank to cycle all over again.

I've got extra filters on the 240 and 210 right now, and am aerating both.  I'm keeping an eye on the fish for any behavior that points to stress...flashing, gasping...etc.

Tonight I'll leave some water in a container and test it tomorrow.

Here's the readings for the past few months.  You can see how things shifted.  Sorry for the formatting, but it doesn't copy in very well.

Click this...it's easier to read.


Date   Aquarium   Temp.   pH   GH   KH   Nitrite   Nitrate   Ammonia   Chlorine  
                    (°F)    dH     dH    (ppm)(mg/l) (mg/l)
8/8/2008 240 Gallon   80 7       13       3      0     40         0.25              0
8/7/2008 240 Gallon 80 6.8 14 3 0.25 80 1
8/6/2008 240 Gallon 80 6.8 14 3 0 40 0.25 0
7/10/2008 240 Gallon 80 7.2 9 7 0 80 0 0

8/8/2008 210 Gallon 80 79 8 3 0.5 40 0 0
8/7/2008 210 Gallon 80 7.6 9 4 0.25 40 0.5 0
7/10/2008 210 Gallon 78 8 8 7 0 20 0 0
6/1/2008 210 Gallon 78.6 7.2 9 7 0 80 0 0

8/7/2008 135 Gallon-1 82 7.2 12 4 0 80 0 0
7/10/2008 135 Gallon-1 77.6 8 10 9 0 40 0  
6/1/2008 135 Gallon-1 80.2 7 10 3 0 80 0  

8/7/2008 135 Gallon-2 80 7.2 16 3 0 40 0 0
7/10/2008 135 Gallon-2 80.8 8 11 11 0 40 0 0

8/7/2008 100 Gallon 80.4 7 16 1 0 40 0 0
7/10/2008 100 Gallon 79.4 8 8 10 0 20 0 0
6/1/2008 100 Gallon 81.7 7.2 11 7 0 80 0.25 0

8/8/2008 75 Gallon - L   82.1 7 19 2 0 40 0 0
7/10/2008 75 Gallon - L 80.1 8.2 8 6 0 10 0 0
6/1/2008 75 Gallon - L 81.7 8 11 8 0 80 0 0

8/8/2008 75 Gallon - R 82.3 11 3 0 40 0 0
7/10/2008 75 Gallon - R 81.1 8 8 7 0 40 0 0
6/1/2008 75 Gallon - R 79.1 8 9 8 0 40 0 0

[imagirlgeek]

Re: pH and kH crash - HIGH gH

This all started about 2 weeks ago.  The 240 clouded up a few days after a water change (40%) and I noticed the fish were flashing in both the 240 and the 210.  Did a partial on both tanks and threw some extra filtration on them.  The next day the 240 was worse, so I took down the original filters and gave them a cleaning...carefully of course, not to compromise the bacteria.  After about a week, the water started to clear up a bit, but the test values have still been erratic.  Ammonia, Nitrites and Nitrates fairly high, and you know about the ph, kh and gh.

After I got those 2 tanks out of the critical zone, I started testing the other tanks and found them to all have low ph, kh and gh as well.  All the tanks get weekly 40%-50% water changes, except the 240 and 210 who get 40% -50% every 2 weeks.

I tested the tap water posted in this thread right before posting it.

[eklikewhoa]

Re: pH and kH crash - HIGH gH

Any source of carbon get it's way into the tank?.......Vodka, VitaminC, Vinegar, etc.? Any new Air freshners? New cleaning chemicals?