curing ick without chemicals.

[stevenallenbarnard]

I've developed a case of ich in my 60gal semi-aggressive community. I've seem a little scratching here and there but today I saw a full full breakout on my clown loeaches, no one else though. I'd like to try and find a chemicaless cure since I have many scaleless fish. I don't have a heater which may have helped cause the situation. I heard before that you could heat your tank pretty warmly and keep it like that for a couple of week or so since the ich doesn't like warm water. Any suggestions? Here's the specs of the tank. 58-60 oceanic tank (36"x18"x21")

inhabitants:
2x gold tinfoil barbs (small)
3x clown loaches (small)
gold gourami (med)
pagnassius cat (small)
blood parrot cichlid (small)
rainbow shark (med)
small comet gold fish
dino bichir (med)
chocolate pleco (small)
ghost knife (med)

I know it's kinda overcrowded but I'm growing out the barbs, pagnassius and bichir to go into 120gal sa cichlid tank.

[imagirlgeek]

I've been reading A LOT about this the last couple of days.

The heat makes the lifecycle of the parasite speed up. The average lifecycle takes about a week to complete, but if you heat up the tank to mid to high 80's, it's more like 48 hours. I've read that high temps will kill Ich, but I've not read where only increasing the heat helped someone kill it. It seems more logical that it would only speed up the lifecycle, allowing it to reproduce faster and kill the fish faster. But I did read someplace that Ich can't reproduce 'properly' in temps higher than 85. You could try the method of increasing the temp to 90 for 24 hours, which is supposed to kill the juvenile tomites, then decrease the temp to 70 for 48 hours, which is supposed to cause the adult parasites to fall off the fish and start to reproduce, then back up to 90 for 24 hours, then back down to 70 for 48 hours...and so on...for 2 weeks. You have to clean the tank every day using this method to get as much of the parasite out as possible. Personally, I think that would be really stressful for the fish, but that's just my opinion.

Ich isn't as tolerant of salt as most fish are, so if you can add aquarium salt, it's supposed to do the trick. The thing is...every site I read has a different amount of salt to use. 3 ppt is supposed to be the magic amount, but I've also read accounts of Ich surviving in up to 5 ppt.

Whatever you decide to do, let us know if it worked for you. I think everyone would benefit from a good non-chemical method of killing Ich.

Also, if you decide to go with heat, make sure to drop some air stones in the tank...that's a lot of fish competing for oxygen and the warmer the tank, the less O2 available...but you probably know that already.

[supadave]

I had Ich once about two years ago. The way that I killed the parasite was by using heat and table salt. I raised the temp. up to 90 degreez and added about 1tblspn of salt per. 10gals of water. After about three days the Ich was gone, but I still continued the treatment for an additional two or three days.

[tnguyen]

Try a UV filter.

[FuzzyDragon09]

Hey! I thought I could be of some help. I found this a while back somewhere and saved it. Supposedly it works on mild to moderate cases of ich, is proven to work, and is safe for really sensitive fishes. I have never used it but it sounds like a good idea. Oh and the ending water temperature is 78 on here but that is supposed to be your normal tank temperature. So if you keep it higher or lower you will have to adjust it.

Day 1- Increase the temp. to 80 degrees, Do a 20% WC, and add 1 Tbsp. of aquarium salt per 20 Gallons of water.
Day 2- Increase the temp. to 82 degrees and add 1 Tbsp. of aquarium salt per 40 Gallons of water.
Day 3- Increase the temp. to 84 degrees and add 1 Tbsp. of aquarium salt per 40 Gallons of water.
Day 4- Increase the temp. to 85 degrees and add 1 Tbsp. of aquarium salt per 40 Gallons of water.
Day 5- Don't do anything.
Day 6- Don't do anything.
Day 7- Don't do anything.
Day 8- Don't do anything.
Day 9- Do a 20% WC and decrease the temp. to 84 degrees.
Day 10- Do a 20% WC. and decrease the temp. to 82 degrees.
Day 11- Do a 20% WC. and decrease the temp. to 80 degrees.
Day 12- Do a 20% WC. and decrease the temp. back to 78 degrees.

For this cure you would need to get a heater but I would always have one in the tank. I have heard others say that they don't because their house is warm enough. I keep my house at 69/70 degrees year round except during winter it's a little higher. And also with central air there tend to be areas of my room that are colder. It's something to keep in mind. I wish you the best of luck on your battle with ich!

[Spot86t]

The only luck I"ve had with loaches (clowns, yoyo's, kubotai, and others), was by using either a diatom filter, or a HOT Magnum fitted wiht the supplied water polishing filter and about a cup of Diatomaceous earth (aka DE). Food grade isn't necessary, and may not even work as well. I got a large box of it from Leslies pool supply (way cheaper than what they sell at fish shops), and it worked fine. You need to change the DE out at least twice a day, probably more at first since it's also picking up any sediment that's in the water column. I left all the other filters running, but I pulled the carbon out and used "Ich Attack" from Kordon (most pet stores have it - and it might actually be "Ick", not "Ich") along with it, as it claims to be 100% organic and therefore safe even for scaleless fish. I used 1.25 dose because I've heard so often how hard it is to cure loaches with it. I bumped the temp to 82 during all this, and ran the filter for a month just to be extra safe. I don't think I ran any more salt than I usually do, since I didn't want it to affect the Ich Attack. I've heard raising temps and adding salt can cure it, but I never had any luck at all doing it that way.

This brings to mind all the controversy over putting salt in freshwater tanks. Personally, I used salt for years, but when I started reading how it's not necessary, and not all that beneficial, etc... I stopped using it. I had never had to EVER deal with Ich until after that. Well, after 3-4 rounds of it in a 1.5-2 year span, and losing the battle (with some nice fish) a couple of times, I changed my mind and started salting again.
Now I'm not saying it will prevent it, but I don't care what all the researchers and professionals say, I believe that it may have helped prevent it. How, I don't know - either ich thrives more in saltless tanks or just doesn't like salt, or it helps with the slime coat on the fish (their primary armor against physical attacks), or maybe helped stabilize their stress level (and strength of immunity). All of mine get at LEAST a tablespoon per every 5 gallons, with the exception of some fancy pleco's, who get a teaspoon/5 gal. Keep in mind though, that you may have a (just for example) 20 gallon tank, but you've probably got about a couple of gallons of rocks, fish, decor, pumps, heater etc..., so adjust accordingly. Some plants hate salt, some don't, and same with fish. I put a bit more with guppies and mollies - since they (amongst others) can actually do fine even in a full brackish setup.

Anyway, that's my $.02 - for whatever it's worth.... I wish you luck, I hate seeing loaches with ich - I think you've got a pretty good challenge on your hands.

[imagirlgeek]

Dang, I've missed you Spot!!!

)

[PhishPhreek]

I thought I posted this recently but paperless publications are cheap

ICK
Ich is actually a protozoa called Ichthyophthirius multifiliis. There are three phases to the life cycle of this protozoa.


Adult phase – The white spots you call ick are like a tick, embedded in the skin or gills of the fish, sucking blood cells and skin cells. After a few days like a fat tick, drops off.

Cyst phase – The fattened parasite falls to the bottom forming a cyst and divides into many little icks.

Free swimming phase – Thousands of little icks are released from the cyst and go hunting a new host. (they will die if no host / food is found within 3 days) Once a host is found the cycle starts over.

The Ick life cycle is temperature dependant.
4 weeks at 70F but only 4 days at 85F
Adult Ick will drop off and become free swimming at 85F

This is important because you can only kill the little boogers when they are free swimming. Kill them with any of the following:





Salt
Coppersafe
Quick-Cure
Ich-Ease
Aquari-sol
Cure-Ick
Aquarisol
BettaZing
Quinine sulphate
quinine hydrochloride


Most commercial remedies contain malachite green and/or copper.
Malachite green will stain the plastic and silicone in the aquarium

*** CAUTION ***
Not all medications are suitable for all fish.
Become aware of what Temperature & meds the fish in your tank can & cannot tolorate.
Read the manufacturers instructions and carefully follow the recomended dosages. Do not dispose of medical chemicals pubilic water ways.

[stevenallenbarnard]

Treatment day one.

I've added a heater, which I'm using to take the heat gradually to 80 degrees by tomorrow. I've also done a 10% water change/gravel vacuum. I've used 2 tbl spoons of salt per 5 gallons (10 gallons total) using API brand aquarium salt in warm water from the tap, then I added a dechlorinator and let the water sit for an hour stirring it occasionally. Tomorrow I will do a 20-30% water change using the same methods for salinating and dechlorinating. I will also start to raise the temp from the 80 degrees that it will be at tomorrow to 90 degrees over another 24 hours, raising from 70 to 90 degrees over 48 hours or so. I also noticed spots on my pagnassius today, and I can only find 2 loaches.

[eklikewhoa]

If worst comes to worst Ich-Attack is organic.

I have had good luck with heat and salts, daily I would also vacuum the substrate too. You can get the same "aquarium salt" from the grocery store as kosher/sea salt probably cheaper too.

[imagirlgeek]

Yep, and if you use a lot of salt and want to buy bulk, Solar Salt at Home Depot is also the same stuff. (Big blue bag - 40lb for ~$4.00)

[stevenallenbarnard]

day 2

did 50% water change with warm water @ aquarium salt to increase salinity. A friend of mine suggested that I pour some salt into the backs of the 2 h o b filters I have on there so that it can dissolve gradually and increase the salt levels slowly. Everyone is present and accounted for so far. the ick is still pretty bad on the loaches but I don't see them scratching near as much. I guess that's the salt soothing their skin. and since I've warmed the water I see my ghost knife a lot more than I used to. I don't think I'll do a water change tomorrow. give em a day off.

[szidlon]

Let us know how it goes. It's been my experience that when you see your black ghost out when he/she normally is not, it's not a good thing.

[ghoastgirl1]

I'm on the 4th day of treatment for my aquarium as well. I also did about 95% water changes two days in a row. I added 3tsp/5 gallons as recommended by another hobbyist. So it was a total of 36 tsp.

The changes were in part to that huge die off I had earlier in the week after getting back from CA. Just made me feel a bit better, sifted through EVERYTHING and cleaned the sucker from top to bottom. This was to hopefully remove some of the free floaters if there were any around. I'm planning to leave mine salted for 2 - 3 weeks total just in case. Unfortunately me tetras do not care for the salt as it makes the water harder. They prefer the softer water. Oh well! It's for their own good right :) I also have my temperature up to the 80's.

The infected long-finned black skirts are looking better today, the adult ich are beginning to disappear. I'm hoping I'll be done with this soon as you are and not have to deal with it again in the near-future.

Good luck!

[stevenallenbarnard]

day 6

I've kept up the heat, and kept the salinity levels the same since my last post. I did lose all 3 of my clown loaches, one a day for the last 3 days. but they did have the the very worst, I mean they were baaaaad. my pagnassius and parrot are clearing up though, no signs on the parrot and less than 5 white spots on the pagnassius. my heater doesn't work as well as I hoped it would, it's just a top fin brand from petsmart, but the water does feel much more comfortable at the 82-85 degrees it's been holding at. I'm gonna keep the temp and salinity levels where they are for another week or so before I start to gradually reduce the salt levels. looks like I have an excuse to go buy some more clown loaches in a month or so.