when the chlorimines hit the suburbs

[fshfrk]

It's coming soon

1- you should not overdose with the new generation dechlorinters like the old( they deoxygenate)

2- you can use your old dechlorinaters but you would be better off with a wet/dry to handle the ammonia.

3- the disease & disaster thread is going to go nuts!

[newb]

which "new" ones are we talking about.

[FrontosaurusRex]

i'm very confused. Are you saying that the city will be adding something to the water? I usually just use Stresscoat or Amquel+ with my weekly water changes. I'm running mostly biological filtration but i dont own wet/dry systems. My wife wont let since we just bought wood floors.

[Zulaab]

Chloramines are not new, they are used in many water systems and Amquel+ and Prime are prolly your best choice for water detox or a carbon filter which will take out the bad stuff. What John is saying is that everyone is going to be moving to Chloramines because of surface water use. Because of the longer transport, they need to use Chloramines to make it last. Wet/dry's are best way to go because the higher oxygination the FASTER the break down of ammonia occurs. John has shown on his 210 that with his filter he was able to break down 3.0 ammonia in 24 hours, this is because there is so much oxygen in the system that its breaking down the ammonia so quick... the back draw of course is your fish needs that Oxygen too.

Now with the use of canisters, please remember when they leak they leak a lot more than a wet/dry. Mine dont leak at all once they are up and running correctly. Many others can attest to this. As long as you dont overfill your wet/dry while its running you are never going go end up with water on the floor. Note the pictures from my Chilambo thread I have a wet/dry directly on the carpet. No wet spots anywhere. The 110 I have has a pro/clear 175 on it running Also over carpet.. and if I have a spil there, then I cannot get to the water because of the way the stand is built. I am trying to make very sure that I dont ever overfill this one.

[fshfrk]

Canisters do not oxygenate. wet/drys totally saturate the water with oxygen. Take the new amquel+ for example it's a chemical called sodium bisulfite. It's a notorious deoxygenater. The old amquell was sodium thiosulfate. deoxegenates much less. You could over dose with the old amquell and not reduce the oxegen content to hurt the fish. The new amquell+ I would not. Sodium bisulfate will pull the oxegen out and if you only run canisters they can not handle the ammonia from the chlorimines=dead fish.
I hope this makes sense. maybe someone can help me explain this?

[newb]

ok, so your saying you just need high amounts of oxygen and then your fine. such as having LOTS of water aggitation or the use of HOBs such as AC110's. Obviously a wet/dry adds a lot of O2, but would these alternatives solve this problem as well.

[newb]

I use multiple powerheads to achieve high O2 as well as 2x AC110's on every tank in the apartment.

[fshfrk]

you might have chlorimines now. It just depends on where you live. the city is switching to surface water from lake houston. the city adds chlorimines because it lasts longer than chlorine. they are different. the chlorime has ammonia bonded to it. first you have to break the bond and treat the chlorine. then what do you do with the ammonia. your filter will handle it. Well if it's not a wet/dry I would not trust it. Thats just me. OK the new dechlorinators will break the bond and detoxify the ammonia(break it down to a less harmless type of ammonia) which your filter will handle. But these new dechlorinaters will take the oxygen out of the water. you can run air pumps, power heads or what ever to help this. I just would not over dose like everyone has always said is ok. How many times have you heard people on fish a site say you can not over dose the dechloriner. It was true with the old ones but not the new ones. I trust a wet/dry only.

[MeuserReef]

I use RO/DI water for our freshwater tank (lake Tang. cichlids).

We have a reef aquarium that requires the RO unit, and after "something" changed suddenly in our MUD water supply during the holiday season last year (killing about 50 juv. fish :( ), we decided that using RO/DI water was going to be a must. I add to the RO water a homemade buffer made from Epsom Salt, Baking Soda, and Reef salt.

Buffer Recipie: (add to 5 gallons of water)
-1 Tablespoon (T) Epsom Salt (Magnesium Sulfate)
-1 Tablespoon (T) Reef Salt (Reef Crystals in my case)
-1 teaspoon (t) Baking Soda

[Zulaab]

RO/DI water ensures that your water is pure, but your pH has to have dropped down to 7, and Tanganyika fish needs pH of around 8. You can buy Tanganyika buffer which will bring the pH back up, or easier since the pH in Houston is already about 8, just get a good carbon filter and remove all the bad chemicals that are added into your municipal water. See John "fshfrk" for what to build, because he makes the best DYI carbon filters here :)

[cichlid1409]

jesper, meuserReef said he uses baking soda which buffers to a ph of no more than 8.2 so his ph should be good for tangs.
carbon filter is deffinitely the way to go.

[Zulaab]

My bad.. I missed that.. you care correct cichlid1409.. sorry about that.

[MeuserReef]

I will admit that I am a bit nervous to try the water out of the tap again. Watching my wife watching her fish die pretty much signed the lifetime contract with the RO/DI unit for me! I am missing the use of the Python water changer. It was nice to have a bucket-free water change. My current system is not really that bad either, though. A 32 gallon Brute trashcan on a dolly with caster wheels and a Maxi-jet isnt too bad on the back.

Thanks for the tips on the DIY carbon filters. I will certainly look into that.

[RMD55]

The other reason for adding chloramines is the organics found surface water react with chlorine to form carcinogens, chloramines do not. So water treatment plants are being forced by the EPA to use chloramines. There are other better ways of treating water but they cost more. Chlorine and chloramines are bad for the fish and not good for us either.

[cichlid1409]

john you really got me wondering about the science of why sodium bisulfite uses so much more O2 when using for chloramines ....so here it is


5NaHSO3 + 5NH2Cl + 5H2O -> 5NaHSO4 + 5NH3 + 5HCl
Sodium Bisulfite, monochloramine, sodium Bisulfate, Ammonia, Hydrochloric acid


Na2S2O3 + 4NH2Cl + 5H2O -> 2NaHSO4 + 4NH3 + 4HCl
Sodium Thiosulfate, Monochloramine, sodium Bisulfate, Ammonia, Hydrochloric acid


these are just the first simple equations in the line of equations and didn't want to type it all out but this shows that greater quantities of Bisulfate is used to treat the same amount of water and chloramine. A by product of these series of reactions is Sulfer gas (positive charge) which readily bonds with oxygen (negative charge) in your tank and is released at the surface of the water. By using more bisulfate to affect the same amount of water as thiosulfate does you are producing more Sulfur gas and reducing the amount of oxygen in your water.

Also , if you havn't noticed already both products produce Hydrochloric acid which will drop your Ph but commercial dechlorinators add buffers .

Anybody make Zip Drops and have a problem with Ph?

I am not a chemist and have never claimed to be so pleae be gentle on me if any of this is incorrect.