when the chlorimines hit the suburbs

[fshfrk]

I use zipp drops and have no problem with ph. but I only use 1/2 the amount I should because I run my water thru carbon.
I only drink carbon filtered water. It makes sense to me to do the same for the fish.

1409 -did you see all the other by products from the dechlorination prossess. SCARY!

[cichlid1409]

1409 -did you see all the other by products from the dechlorination prossess. SCARY!

I know very scary stuff .... After looking into this i never want to use dechlorinator again , it all stays in the water nothing is removed only 'detoxified' . carbon filter or RO/DI only for me.

[MeuserReef]

So do you all think that I might be better off using tap water that has been run through a carbon filter?

Ive also used a product from Kent called "RO Right" which claims to reintroduce minerals n' stuff back into the (pure) RO water. Any thoughts on this stuff?

[fshfrk]

I use kent essential trace elements and minerals. RO water is stripped of everything so ya RO right is perfect. I always wanted to get a drip doser and add trace elements contiually.

[cichlid1409]

I always wanted to get a drip doser and add trace elements contiually.

I don't know if I would do that.....theres no way to test for trace elements.

[cichlid1409]

http://www.calgoncarbon-as.com/documents/CatalyticCarbonNewWeaponinChloramineBattle.pdf

interesting read about chloramines and the use of catalytic carbon as opposed to activated carbon for chlorine/chloramine removal. catalytic carbon is like carbon on steroids.

and another...

http://www.calgoncarbon.com/documents/TreatingH2SWellswithCatalyticCarbon.pdf

another

http://www.calgoncarbon.com/carbon_products/documents/Centaur12x40.pdf

[HepCaribou]

Interesting carbon articles although they read (as they are) as Calgon marketing literature. Carbon filtration has always struck me as really expensive, but maybe I ought to look into it more.

Some other things I've wondered about the dechlorinators that handle chloramines ...

Canisters do not oxygenate. wet/drys totally saturate the water with oxygen. Take the new amquel+ for example it's a chemical called sodium bisulfite. It's a notorious deoxygenater. The old amquell was sodium thiosulfate. deoxegenates much less. You could over dose with the old amquell and not reduce the oxegen content to hurt the fish. The new amquell+ I would not. Sodium bisulfate will pull the oxegen out and if you only run canisters they can not handle the ammonia from the chlorimines=dead fish.
I hope this makes sense. maybe someone can help me explain this?

First, I'm 99.9% certain the old Amquel was not sodium thiosulfate as the whole marketing point of Amquel was that it neutralized ammonia, which sodium thiosulfate (zip drops) does not. I don't know what chemical they used, though.

The Amquel+ stuff certainly seems different, smells different, and claims a whole lot more special abilities than the old bottle (I have 2 of them here side-by-side).

Now, about overdosing ... I too am in the habit of "more is better" and pretty-generously overdose my dechlorinator after losing several tank-fuls of fish at the recommended doses some years ago. With the "new stuff" (assuming everyone's product is now based on sodium bisulfate?), if you overdose ... what actually is happening?

The extra S2 should only be freed if it is neutralizing chloramine/chlorine gas molecules, right? So why would an overdose be that much worse than a "sufficient" dose? Or does it react with other stuff in the tank also (freeing more S2 to bind up oxygen)?

About canisters: They should handle the ammonia just fine -- lots of bio-media there -- provided there is enough oxygen in the water (fish gasping at the surface?).

After looking into this i never want to use dechlorinator again , it all stays in the water nothing is removed only 'detoxified'.

Unless it were converted to a gas, where would it go? But, if ammonia is "detoxified" then processed by the bio-filter -> nitrite -> nitrate, it's effectively removed (well, the nitrate builds up, but my plants devour it).

Seachem's website says the "bound ammonia" will stay bound (reaction won't reverse in the tank) till the bacteria process it. Other manufacturers say essentially the same thing.

"Prime works by removing chlorine from the water and then binds with ammonia until it can be consumed by your biological filtration (chloramine minus chlorine = ammonia). The bond is not reversible and ammonia is still available for your bacteria to consume."

What is this "nontoxic ammonia" compound and just how non-toxic is it?

One thought I had... why not use TWO products?
- Start with sodium thiosulfate (homemade "zip drops"), which leaves you with water + ammonia
- Use some (less?) of another product like Amquel+ or Prime to take care of the ammonia
Pro's? Con's? Not worth the effort? Even worse overdose/deoxygenation problem? (I have a bag of sodium thiosulfate crystals in the closet; seems a shame not to find a use for them!)

What I'm still wondering about "it" is what else is in Houston water besides chloramine/chlorine that I might need to worry about?

EDIT: This Seachem article (link) actually answered a couple of my questions; not super-technical, but more-informative than other info I've seen.

[fshfrk]

About the cost of the carbon filtration it's much cheaper than dechlorinators. It removes alot of the other bad stuff in our water too. I just use zipp drops to dechlorinate stuff I've bleached. So keep the zipp crystals.

[myjohnson]

One thought I had... why not use TWO products?
- Start with sodium thiosulfate (homemade "zip drops"), which leaves you with water + ammonia
- Use some (less?) of another product like Amquel+ or Prime to take care of the ammonia
Pro's? Con's? Not worth the effort? Even worse overdose/deoxygenation problem? (I have a bag of sodium thiosulfate crystals in the closet; seems a shame not to find a use for them!)

Why not get a bottle and not use any product?

[76dragon]

I bought a 5 lb bottle of sodium thiosulfate, working good so far. Probably gonna last for a really long time.

[fshfrk]

I bought a 5 lb bottle of sodium thiosulfate, working good so far. Probably gonna last for a really long time.

30 year supply nice. you should sell some and get your money back. I will take a pound.

[76dragon]

I can't sell to you. I will bring u a couple lbs next time I come up. Share the wealth...

[fshfrk]

Bring that carbon filter and we will repack it with fresh pellitized activated carbon and catylitic carbon mix.