raising angelfish for dummies

[PhishPhreek]

I bought 8 black & gold angelfish at the last HAS auction.  Their bodies were about fifty cent size and I considered them juvies.
I planed on giving them to my daughter for her birthday the following month so I expected to quaranteen them for that month. The problem is I didn't have any extra large quaranteen tanks so they wound up in a 20H  that was a black molly spawn tank (trio of black mollies, a lot of java moss & about 20 molly fry).

First thing to go was all of the smaller molly fry.  Next supprise 2 of the angels claimed a back corner and chaised everyone else away (mr clueless here).
then one of the other angels went missing and I assumed he had jumped.   Yesterday I found a dead angel in the tank and removed it.   Today I was skimming the duckweed off the top of the tank and scrubbing the green fuzzies off of the front glass when I discovered Mom & Dad chasing everyone away from their corner and returning to ride hurd on a white cloud in their corner.  After cleaning my glasses I could see 40+ free swimming fry being gathered up from all over the tank and spit back into their corner.

Well I have removed the java moss, mollies & other angelfish.  Turned off the HOB filter and added a sponge filter to the tank.  I now have a bare tank with a half inch of crud on the floor and my Angelfish family.   I added some liquid fry food, and some powdered food for egglayer fry and plan to start some BBS eggs in my hatcher tonight.

I have no idea how many mistakes I made here but I can guess.  Constructive comments are appreciated.

Questions:
1) Should I try to syphon the crud off the bottom of the tank or add snails or something to cleanup ?
2) When should I remove the parents.
3) What size tank should I put the parents in,  if I plan on letting them raise the next brood ?
4) Is the 20H big enough to raise the 50 fry or should I prepare a larger tank for them ?

[Mzungu]

Re: raising angelfish for dummies

I'm pretty clueless when it comes to angels, too. But I think you should siphon off the crud on the bottom. I've heard angel fry need very clean water to be healthy and grow, so getting all the stuff off the bottom and doing lots of water changes is good.

I'm sure some angel people can give you a lot more answers. Good luck!  :)

[nacra99]

Re: raising angelfish for dummies

Congrats on the spawn!
It's been a while since i bred angels and breeding techniques have changed since then, but shlould still be valid.

Personally, i would try to siphon the crud off the bottom. Small fry tend to like to sit on the ground and "belly slide". Removing the crud reduces the possiblity of bacterial / fungal infections. Adding some Acriflavin will also help keep bacterial/fungal/protozoan infections at bay.

In my experience, many first time angel parents tend to eat the babies, so I prefer to separate the fry and raise them away from the parents. As long as the fry are free-swimming, you can separate them from the parents anytime.
You can house them in a bare bottom 10gal by themselves with a sponge filter, or you can use a TLC jar. They'll eat BBS readily as soon as their yolk sac is gone.

If you plan on parent raising, a 20H is perfect for a breeding / brooding tank. You might lose the first couple of spawns as the parents might eat them, but they should snap out of it eventually. You can feed the fry BBS by squirting them among the fry with a turkey baster or a pipette.

20H will be good for a breeding tank, but you'll need a bigger tank for growout. As a rule of thumb, when i notice the fry start growing out their dorsal and anal fins, they get moved to a growout tank. I used to use a 55gal for 2 medium spawns.

Steve @ angelsplus has a great page on angel breeding / stocking etc.

http://www.angelsplus.com/AllAboutAngelfish.htm

HTH
Marc

[Obed]

Re: raising angelfish for dummies

First siphon the crud off the bottom before the wigglers become free swimmers, for two reasons:
first the swimmers are going to be so small that it is difficult not to siphon some out
secondly if there is crud on the bottom there will be a higher concentration of bacteria there and the babies will have problems like losing ventrals and dieing.... the ones who do live will be deformed or stunted so get the bottom clean and keep it clean, every time you feed the bbs wait five to 10 minutes then take a piece of rigid air line and attach a few feet of regular air line, use that to siphon all uneaten bbs off the bottom, sipon into a white bucket so that you can see any fry that got siphoned out, then use a turkey baster to suck up the fry and put it back into your tank....
some parents never learn to be parent raisers, some take a few spawns to learn,  I don't let any of my pairs parent raise unless all of my grow out tanks are full. when the fry look like angels, develop fins, move them into their own grow out tanks, usually around week three, if you are parent raising, then move them around week two or they will drive the parents nuts....
I use two 75 gallon tanks for each normal size spawn but I only have 10 75's so I use a lot of 30 gallon and 29 gallon tanks,  i also have several 37 gallon tanks I use, in the summer i have outside 280 gallon tank that helps as well....
You do not need the parents at all to raise your spawn unless you want to...  I pull the eggs and put them in a one gallon jar, i put the one gallon jar inside a 10 gallon tank and use the 10 gallon tank to keep the temperature stabel, I add an air line to simulate the parents fanning the eggs and put in 5 drops of acriflavine. I do small daily water changes using the water from the 10 gallon so that by day 7 when the fry start free swimming all the meds are gone, the when all the fry are free swimming, i give them their first feeding of bbs in the one gallon jar, then I turn the jar over and put the fry out into the 10 gallon, of course the 10 gallon has a sponge filter in it....
I forgot what all you asked so I will post this and read and if I left anything out that you asked I will post again, if you have any more questions feel free to ask....