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  • #1

    Next Project - Angel Fish Tank / Breeder - Questions...

    Now that my shell-dweller tank is running and just waiting on cycling to add fish, I'm starting something else.

    The wife wants a tank in the bedroom.  So, I'm thinking a 20 gallon 24X12X16, planted tank that I'm going to try to get Koi Angels to breed in.  65wt, 6,700k lighting, no CO2 injection, will dose ferts as needed. Emperor 280 Power Filter.

    I'm bidding on these guys at Aquabid (suppose to be about 9 months old, getting close to breeding age).  I'll get 7 if I win the auction.    

    http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff85/bqpw11/fwangelfish1219845230.jpg


    I'll start with all 7 in the tank and then once they pair off, I'll leave the best looking pair in the tank and put the others in my community 46gal tank.  I don't plan to put any other fish in the tank, eventually maybe 3-4 small cory cats is it looks like I need them.

    I want the angels to breed in a "natural" environment, so I plan to put in some tall-broad leave plants like Amazon Sword, Anubias Congensis, etc in the back of the tank and then wood/ferns/small plants on sides/front.  I've seen that a lot of people try slate laying at an angle in the tank, but I want to try to get them to lay the eggs on the plants and I want to leave the eggs, and hopefully babies with the parents.

    Here's my questions:

    I don't use heaters in any of  my tanks, but I've read that Angels breed better if the water is around 82'ish degrees. True or False ?  My tanks stay pretty constant between 74-76.   I can put in a heater if I need to.

    Is there a specific plant that anyone has had good luck with getting Angels to use as the nursery ?

    Any pointers on setting this tank up that I need to consider ahead of time in order to get my desired result ?
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  • #2
    Re: Next Project - Angel Fish Tank / Breeder - Questions...

    A few people I know could chime in about this. If not then I will later tonight. My knowledge is primarily on mass breeding them in a bare tank. Not in their natural enviroments. So i think its better to let someone with more know how on doing it in a planted tank.
    Resident BUM !!!

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    • #3
      Re: Next Project - Angel Fish Tank / Breeder - Questions...

      If you are not going to put a piece of 2" wide slate in the tank for them to breed on you will want something with a broad leaf like an amazon sword.

      Be aware that a 20g is too small.   As they mature they will start fighting before they chose mates and after they pair up the pair will defend their teritory.
      The loosers need a lot of room to run away and hide.
      'Dear Lord,' the minister began, with arms extended toward heaven and a rapturous look on his upturned face. 'Without you, we are but dust ...'
      He would have continued but at that moment my very obedient daughter who was listening leaned over to me and asked quite audibly in her shrill little four-year old girl voice, 'Mom, what is butt dust?'

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      • #4
        Re: Next Project - Angel Fish Tank / Breeder - Questions...

        Yeah, I would recommend a 40 breeder for your project. Even that might not work for 7 full grown angles.

        CF
        Truth is the cement that holds the bricks and stones of a sane and civilized society together. Remove the former and the latter will crumble.

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        • #5
          Re: Next Project - Angel Fish Tank / Breeder - Questions...

          My space is the issue, tank needs to fit into a cabinet that my wife already has in the bedroom. And I don't think I can get any bigger.  If I start the 7 out in a bigger tank (my 46 gallon bow-front) just to find a mate and then move the pair into the 20 would that work ?  Versus starting them all in the 20 to find a mate and then taking the 5 out that I don't want to breed ?

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          • #6
            Re: Next Project - Angel Fish Tank / Breeder - Questions...

            Howdy,

            Marion, Susan & Nancy are local experiened angel fish breeders that often visit this sight.  20 gallon is small unless you remove the parents after eggs are laid and raise the angels in that tank and then it is only good for a couple weeks.  I would recommend going with the suggeted 40 tank or larger and parent raise. Evne then you will need more grow out tanks.  20 gallon is to small to put 7 adult angel fish in.

            I have bought smaller angels on aquabid with good success but would caution you about the larger older angels especaialy durning this summer heat.  Those are nice angels and I have a few that are awfully close to what they look like and am east of Houston.  Will know better how many extra adult angels I have left after a friend picks out his 5 pairs tomorrow.   Good luck with your aqua bid!  later, ken

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            • #7
              Re: Next Project - Angel Fish Tank / Breeder - Questions...

              We understand your space issue, and we all must do what we have/want to do, but consider the fish and their needs too..

              Thanks

              CF
              Truth is the cement that holds the bricks and stones of a sane and civilized society together. Remove the former and the latter will crumble.

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              • #8
                Re: Next Project - Angel Fish Tank / Breeder - Questions...

                I'm small scale compared to Marion and Susan so I can relate to your shortage of space issue.  Islander and PP are right, a 20gl is much to small for 7 angels.  If you can put them in the larger tank and then pull the pair you want to keep and move them to the 20gl, that is a better plan.  A 20gl will do for a pair but a 29gl is better if you want to try to have them parent raise in a natural enviornment.  Be forewarned though, any pleco's or any other tank mates for that matter will most assuredly end up with a caviar snack.  Once they start breeding, you won't need a calendar any longer, they will spawn regularly every 10 to 14 days (sometimes sooner) whether you want them to or not  :evil: .  How big is your garage?  If you try to keep all the spawns you will need many, many tanks.  Adult angels really need about 10 gallons of tank space each to really thrive and grow to their maximum size.

                I do not use heaters in my tanks (except the Discus and Altum tanks) during the summer and only use them in the winter as a fail safe in case there's a problem with the house heat.  I've never raised the heat to encourage spawing, but a water change with slightly cooler water than is in the tank will almost always prompt a ready to spawn pair to spawn.

                Those are nice looking Koi's and do show the blushing, good luck on your bid.  I have a proven pair of Koi that have been spawing regularly but due to lack of space at the moment I haven't tried to raise any of the fry.

                If Ken is talking about the angels he got at the last HAS auction, they are most likely mine  :) .  I took a bunch there to make space for my zebra angels.
                Reasoning with some people is like trying to nail jello to a wall...

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                • #9
                  Re: Next Project - Angel Fish Tank / Breeder - Questions...

                  Thanks for all the great input from everyone, keep it coming !!    Looks like I need to rethink the plan.....

                  I'm going to do some more measuring tonight to see if I can get a larger tank in where the wife wants one.   If not, I may go with a larger tank in my den and move the 20 I already have into the bedroom (she can have a planted guppy tank) !     Have been considering turning the 46gal bowfront into a planted tank, and maybe that's where I can put a pair of angels.

                  Ken, if you think you might have another pair you'd be willing to part with, I can give up the Aquabid idea, I'm not ahead on the bid right now anyway.   Let me know if you have an extra pair you want to sell.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Next Project - Angel Fish Tank / Breeder - Questions...

                    Hi Kidslikefish

                    I would get myself a 58/70 3ft tank and set it up for the angels..  then you will have the space for growing out some of them to you get two nice pair.
                    Once you have a pair then seperate them into the 46 and let the rest just have fun (or sell them) in the 58/70.

                    70G example
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                    http://houston.craigslist.org/for/806488884.html

                    What fish do Jesper have
                    180 WC T. Moorii Chilambo +1 Petro trewavasae.
                    110                     Cyps, WC Xeno Spilopterus Kipili WC/F1/F2 T. sp red Kiku
                    58 S. Decorus
                    "The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." -Margaret Thatcher

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                    • #11
                      Re: Next Project - Angel Fish Tank / Breeder - Questions...

                      i've got 4 angels, one pair and the other two are not, i have them in a 65gallon community and the pair now pretty much spawns every 2 to 3 weeks, they are beautiful koi's too, i wish i actually had a dedicated tank for them only to actually raise some fry, its fun to watch for now
                      65 gallon - ADA 120p - planted
                      55 gallon - AGA standard - mix cichlid
                      30 gallon tall - eclipse acrylic - semi-planted

                      live and let live

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                      • #12
                        Re: Next Project - Angel Fish Tank / Breeder - Questions...

                        Howdy Kidslikefish,

                        Yep, these are the last of the angels I bought at the HAS auction, most of them came from Nancy, Susan or Marion.  A friend took what we thought was 5 pair today but still have 3 very nice 2" plus body size and there might be a pair in the three.  It looks like 2 gold marbles that look like twins and a Koi.  If there is not a male in this group there was a male gold pearl at the pet store near me that would be unrelated and something good to breed to these.  I will check at the pet store tomorrow to see if he is still there.  Would have bought or traded for him but already had 2 gold pearl males.  

                        Or if you are not in a hurry for breeding I have propably one gold marble and 4 koi that are quarter size and some really nice sunset blushing that are nickle size.  They are growing really fast and some of them will have the longer veil finage.  These came from out of state and are really hardy. 3-4 of the smaller angels would work in a 20 gallon for a couple months.

                        Let me know if you are interested in any pretty quick, 409-771-3305 or kensteblein@aol.com  later, ken

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