I have babies!

[eklikewhoa]

They'll get to the point where herding them becomes too much of a haslle and then he'll let them roam wild as long as there's no predators that is.

Might wanna consider removing the female so she can regain her health. The constant stress from the male now is probably wearing her out and when the fry get old enough that the male doesn't take much attention to keeping them corralled he'll go looking for her to mate again which might do her in.

[barrettsline]

I just got a really good look at the fry! It looks like there's probably 30 or more! The dad had them at the front of the tank, and he let me look for a little while without shooing them away into hiding. They're looking really good!<br />
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Mom is on the other side of the tank. I've figured out which cave she's using. Dad is not allowing her to take part in raising the fry at all, but at least she's able to get out and eat a little. I'm still hoping that dad will come around to allowing mom to eventually reunite with the family. Maybe as the fry gets older.<br />
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The fry are at least 8 days old as of today. I don't know how long they were free swimming before I first saw them. But 8 days is still a very good sign! I think these might actually make it! <img src="http://www.houstonfishbox.com/vforums/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Very Happy" smilieid="3" class="inlineimg" />

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That's awesome news, well except for Mom being able to be with the babies.

[Complexity]

Might wanna consider removing the female so she can regain her health.

I hear what you're saying, but the problem is where do I put her? I'd have to set up a tank just for her. And then I'm not sure if he'll accept her back in the tank later.

I'm trying to keep an eye on things, and if I don't see any improvement, then I may have no choice but to take her out. I guess I could put her with the others in my 75g, but that would bring that tank up to 16 which is way too many.

The bigger question is what I'll do with the dad long term. I don't think I want to breed him again if he doesn't settle down.

[eklikewhoa]

Let nature take it's course, the male will kill the female but since the males are more stunning it will be ok

[aquabee]

I hear what you're saying, but the problem is where do I put her? I'd have to set up a tank just for her. And then I'm not sure if he'll accept her back in the tank later.

I'm trying to keep an eye on things, and if I don't see any improvement, then I may have no choice but to take her out. I guess I could put her with the others in my 75g, but that would bring that tank up to 16 which is way too many.

The bigger question is what I'll do with the dad long term. I don't think I want to breed him again if he doesn't settle down.

Chances are adding just one more small fish to your 75g won't do you in in terms of bioload, and it would be temporary too. As long as you watch your parameters in the first 2-3 weeks, it should be ok to move her there.

That dad is pretty insane. I've heard of things getting bad with the males, but he's pretty rough. I go opposite of what eklikewhoa says and say, trade the male for a chill one! :) Congrats on the fry making it though... he might be a jerk but at least he's taking care of his bebbies!

[Complexity]

The bioload doesn't concern me. What concerns me is that Pelvicachromis are dwarf cichlids that will kill each other if you put too many together. It was very unusual that I had 2 males and 1 female in a 29g tank. I started out with 5 juveniles in that tank. Four were males and just 1 was female. They killed 1 male pretty quickly, leaving 3 males and the lone female to actually grow up. One male paired off with the female and killed one of the other males. The remaining male survived by hiding until I moved him.

Pelvicachromis are very particular about choosing their mates. You can't just put a male and female together and expect them to breed. If they like each other, then great. Otherwise, they'll kill each other. It can sometimes be hard to find two that are compatible. One of the best ways to get a breeding pair is to get several juveniles, allow them to grow together and pair off. Then the pairs will kill off the others.

Having 1 breeding pair in a 29g is about all you can hope for. In a heavily planted 75g, you might get lucky to have 2-3 pairs. That would be 4-6 fish total. I'm looking at having 16 fish in that tank. That means I might lose as many as 10-12 of them as they mature and pair off. Mixing mature fish with juveniles can complicate things. I already have an adult male mixed with the juveniles so I'm afraid I might be really messing things up if I add a mature female.

Of course, I can't put her in a cichlid tank. My other 29g has a paired off male and female Pelvicachromis. I can't put her in my 5g tank. That just leaves the 75g.

So I'm trying to decide which is best. Leave her where she is. Put her in the 75g and possibly upset the 15 already in there. Or put up a 10g for the female and try to reintroduce her back to her original tank later. But when can I reintroduce her? And will the male accept her more then than he will if I leave her there all along?

If the male will just settle down, it would resolve the whole thing. He's a fantastic father, but not a good partner towards the female.

[aquabee]

Ah ok, I see the issue now. Perhaps you can set up a 10 gallon for her (Petsmart is having a sale on 10 gallon setups through the 3rd week of November btw), let her settle there, let the fry grow til they're able to fend for themselves... and then would you be willing to try her in the tank again with him? If this was his first batch of fry, maybe he went a little crazy, as most do with their first set. Because if you get another male... like you said, who knows if the two will pair. But it's another option to try. Or could you put a glass divider in the tank for a little while?

Not an easy situation. Good luck and let us know what happens!

[barrettsline]

Ah ok, I see the issue now. Perhaps you can set up a 10 gallon for her (Petsmart is having a sale on 10 gallon setups through the 3rd week of November btw), let her settle there, let the fry grow til they're able to fend for themselves... and then would you be willing to try her in the tank again with him? If this was his first batch of fry, maybe he went a little crazy, as most do with their first set. Because if you get another male... like you said, who knows if the two will pair. But it's another option to try. Or could you put a glass divider in the tank for a little while?

Not an easy situation. Good luck and let us know what happens!

+1 on that it could give the time you need, or.....i have another 30 gallon that is now in need of a home since all of my fish moved to there new 50 gallon today.

[Complexity]

I have a couple of extra 10g on hand. I'd just really rather not set up yet another tank, but I may not have a choice. I'm going to see how the female does today. If she continues to be stressed, then I may go ahead and set one up.

[barrettsline]

I completely hear you on that note next thing you know more will be set up and running. Believe I know about that, used to have seven in just one room as a kid. And as an adult where I now make more money they seems to breed like the fish do.

[Complexity]

I just moved the female to my 75g tank. She had begun hiding behind the intake pipes, looking very stressed. I don't know how much she's eaten, and after caring for eggs and newborn fry, she's bound to need her nutrition. So I decided to risk moving her to the 75g.

So far, so good! I normally don't feed twice in the same day, but I went ahead and fed the fish in the 75g tank to see if the female would eat. She swam all over the tank, eating just fine. Her color looked better almost immediately. She doesn't seem spooked by the move or any of the other fish and none of them are showing signs of aggression towards her. The adult male seems interested in her in a friendly way so maybe they'll pair off. If so, then I can move them both to the 29g once the fry can be moved out of there and I can rehome the dad.

Speaking of the dad and fry, they're doing great! He's got them out more and they're spreading out further away from him. There's quite a swarm of them! I think he's getting a little more comfortable with me around. He even stayed out with the fry after I netted the female (which went smoothly). So it looks like he's going to raise the fry really well. It's just a shame he wouldn't let the mom be included.

[barrettsline]

Sounds like things are goin better. Glad to hear mom seems to be doing slightly better. Well I guess this is a case of dad knows best. Good luck, I know it was a decision that was hard to make.

[aquabee]

Wow!! I love when things seem work out. How is she doing today? She still hangin out with her new boyfriend? Divorce papers from the hubby filed and all??

[barrettsline]

Wow!! I love when things seem work out. How is she doing today? She still hangin out with her new boyfriend? Divorce papers from the hubby filed and all?? <img src="http://www.houstonfishbox.com/vforums/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Wink" smilieid="4" class="inlineimg" />

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Wow really!?!?! Your bad. Lol!

[Complexity]

LOL! I'd say she is officially divorced from her abusive former husband. I will not put her back in a tank with him. This was not the first time he's done this to her so it's not entirely surprising, but I had hoped he would have calmed down at some point. It seems he only wanted her for the sex. Males, sheesh!

Things are going very well for her in the 75g. Just fed them again (their normal feeding), and everyone's peacefully swimming around, eating at their leisure. Her color looks good and she is behaving very relaxed. The adult male in the tank is peaceful towards her. I'll have to keep watch to see if he tries to strike up a courtship. If so, that'll be great because he needed a mate. So they may work out as a pair together.

I'm glad I moved her. She's less stressed and able to swim around and eat now.