Should I try to rescue these fish?

[afremont]

The blue looks almost dead, but still upright and breathing. It appears that he can swim if he wants to, but he'd rather not. The red is looking ok, from what I saw since he was hiding. At least he is floating, unlike the blue.

It turns out that methylene blue (used for egg fungus usually) can be used to reverse the damage done to the hemoglobin by nitrite poisoning so that it will carry oxygen again. It reportedly doesn't react with any known fish medicine so it should be ok to add to the tanks. It also has some effectiveness against flukes. As soon as the stores open, I'm going to get something containing methylene blue and start dosing the bigger tank with that. It should be harmless to everything but the biofilter and water clarity.

If I had to guess, I fear that it's going to be a sad day for the blue.

[afremont]

I went to petsmart, petco, walmart, CVS, and aquatic world on jones but nobody carried the methylene blue. I did find some medicine for bettas that contained MB, but it also contained some other things. I went ahead and moved the blue to a 1 gallon treatment tank and tried the medicine, but alas at 11:00 when I was finally able to talk to aquarium world, he died as I was on the phone confirming that they do indeed have MB.

I have him in the fridge if anyone is an amateur coroner and would like to dissect him. His eyes were a little sunken, but otherwise he looked normal. He sure hung on like a trooper, I wish I could have helped him more.

I went down and got the MB anyway to treat the flame that was still living. I prepared a dip following Kordon's instructions on their web site for a 10 second dip for cyanide poisoning (yet another problem this amazing substance can help with). They didn't specify that it would work as quickly for nitrite toxicity, but the instructions for the three day treatment treated cyanide poisoning the same as nitrite poisoning so I figured it couldn't hurt to try the emergency dip on him. I netted him up without too much stress and dipped him for about 10 seconds in the concentrated solution and then put him back in the tank. He wasn't very happy about the whole experience, but I think it helped him some. It certainly hasn't made him any worse. He's stopped breathing so hard and I think his cheeks actually look a little pinkish now. I can't really see his gills. He still hasn't eaten anything today though, but will have to give him some time. MB will harm the biological filter so I haven't treated the whole tank yet.

Today is the last day for the QuickCure treatment on the other tank, so I will likely do the slow (3 day) treatment with MB on them while they finish their antibiotics (maracyn 2 only now) they are taking. They all seem to be eating and acting fairly normal. At least nobody over there seems to be getting any worse as far as I have been able to tell.

[R_sustaita]

R.I.P. Blue. how are the rest of the pack doing?

[barrettsline]

I went to petsmart, petco, walmart, CVS, and aquatic world on jones but nobody carried the methylene blue..

Don't know where your located but aqua zoo has it. Just an FYI.

[afremont]

R.I.P. Blue. how are the rest of the pack doing?

The flame that I put in with the blue is still hiding. I can't feed him if he won't come out. I put the MB in the big tank with him, man it's darker than a toilet bowl with a new tidy-bowl installed. I changed 25% of the water this morning, and it's almost time to give the second dose of "General Cure" (once each 48 hours), but I honestly don't think it's really helping him. I'm also concerned that the darkness of the water is keeping him hidden since he thinks it's perpetual night time. He stays upright and sleeps in his rock cave just like the dwarf gourami I have downstairs. He doesn't really seem to have any trouble floating (swim bladder), but he isn't going to the surface at all for air gulps and this concerns me as he was doing that yesterday. But again maybe this is due to the incredible darkness of the tank. He also isn't sitting on the floor, so that is a good sign in my opinion as he isn't completely exhausted. He doesn't pant, but then he doesn't exert himself any either.

Now for some good news, the other nine have completed their QuickCure treatment without any ick outbreaks. They have had two doses of Maracyn 2 and today will bring the third after I change some of their water out. They all come out to beg for food when I show up, even the other two blues that I thought would eventually succumb are playing in the bubbles this morning as well. I think the maracyn 2 has helped them to some extent. There seems to be less aggression between the more dominant fish so maybe it's because they feel better too. This would indicate a bacterial infection I think since both tanks were treated for external parasites, but only one tank was treated for internal parasites (the red and the blue that were sickest). The other nine were only treated for external parasites and given maracyn 2 (minocyclene) which is only an antibiotic.

I wish I knew someone that could examine the dead fish and determine its true cause of death. I'll be ordering a microscope soon, e-bay has some incredible deals on off-brand scopes. I'd just like to know if they have parasites, a bacterial infection and/or signs of a viral infection. Or if it was a fungus that wasn't visible.

I'm inclined to not think it is a virus since the other fish are doing so well and illness seemed to not be spreading since I brought them home. I'm very inclined to believe that the fish that died had been consuming other dead fish at the store and giving themselves internal infections. I really wish I had tested the store water that I brought home, it would be invaluable information to have now.

Don't know where your located but aqua zoo has it. Just an FYI.

Thank you, I was able to get some from aquarium world. My advice to people that want to use it is to wear rubber gloves and use an eye-dropper. It will stain your skin worse than any ink pen ever has. I think I will be using it in the future as a quick dip for new fish before they go into the quarantine tank. Aside from the parasite killing and disinfection ability, the MB will stain the skin of the fish any where it has a wound or a weakened/missing slime coat. Kinda like a high-liter for problem areas.

[R_sustaita]

well 1 dead out off 11 is not bad, good job saving fishy lives.

[afremont]

Thanks for the encouragement. The flame is out of hiding and has been to the top. I put a few flakes in earlier, but I don't know if he ate any of them. At least he is out of the cave, but he still hides behind things and watches me. I think he's afraid of me since I've brought so much torment into his life. The blue would struggle to stay where I could easily see him and vice versa.

Some of the other fish appear to now have a couple of ick spots, so I will continue treatment with the QuickCure I suppose. Next time I think I will use Copper Safe for ick treatment. I mean really, ick breaks out after three days of treatment with QuickCure?

CORRECTION: I was using Tetra Parasite Guard and not AP General Cure. I don't know why I kept writing "General Cure". Both are pretty much the same thing only the Tetra Parasite Guard is a fizzing tablet and the AP General Cure is a powder. Both contain praziquantel and metronidazole so I guess it doesn't really matter.

[R_sustaita]

well that is super good. now when i need med info i can come here. so now what are you going to do with the other 9 that are better?

[afremont]

I'll keep treating the other nine with the rest of their five-day antibiotics program and continue using ick medicine until they don't have any white spots. After a couple more weeks, if they seem ok I'll start adopting some of them out. Want one?

The flame is now hanging around the surface, but not gulping air or panting so I think he's getting plenty of oxygen. He's blowing some bubbles like he is trying to add to the edge of the "nest" of bubbles at the surface created by the air stone. I think he's still not quite sure what to make of the dark blue water. It looks like a tank with blue moonlighting. At least he isn't hiding.

[R_sustaita]

i like gouramies but i don't have the tank to place them. i have a 10g and 8 fish on it and i need to get a pleco to clean the gravel. and one of my endlers is having babies. i will be over populated with them.

[afremont]

LOL, you think you'll be overstocked? I have 9 in a 10g tank and the filter is holding up to it with no substrate even and nobody is trying to kill anyone else yet. Of course I had to dump in some TSS the second day due to the nitrites starting to rise. That fixed it as I expected. I love TSS, I wish it wasn't so darned expensive as it really works for ending a mini cycle.

[R_sustaita]

what is TSS?


Overstock i have 2 angels that will kill them for their territory. i plan on getting a bigger tank until may

[afremont]

Only $1 per gallon at petco until Jan 21. Of course that's just an empty tank. Petco had been running a sale on 20 gallon aqueon deluxe kits for $60 that had a full hood w/fluorescent light, 100w heater, and a quietflow filter (kinda small though, but workable) as well as the usual water additive and free food samples and a net. You should still be able to get one of those kits at aquarium world, but they had very few left last time I was in there. They are specially marked kits for $69.95, really a decent deal for what you get since hoods and lights are ridiculously expensive. A plastic full hood and fluorescent strip light usually run about $40 by themselves.

[afremont]

Sorry, TSS is Tetra Safe Start. It is a beneficial bacteria (BB) starter, it works great since it has the correct bacteria in it. Unlike some other products, you don't keep adding it to the tank every 7 days. You can just pour it in the same day you add all your fish and it works like a champ. You will likely not see a spike in ammonia or in nitrites, just nitrates starting to accumulate after about a week. If you put ammonia binders (ammo lock, amquel+, prime) in the water directly afterwards, you will starve the bacteria since they need some ammonia to operate. The key seems to be to wait 24-48 hours after setting up the tank and adding your water conditioners, and then add the fish and TSS. Don't do any water changes for a week or two unless you can't avoid it for some reason. Only use water that has "aged" for a day or so after adding conditioner. What I like to do is take a five gallon bucket, add one TBSP of aquarium salt, a double dose of Prime and fill it from an outside tap since I have allot of iron from my pipes. I then throw a heater and an air stone into the bucket and let it sit for close to 24 hours before using it.

[R_sustaita]

Only $1 per gallon at petco until Jan 21. Of course that's just an empty tank. Petco had been running a sale on 20 gallon aqueon deluxe kits for $60 that had a full hood w/fluorescent light, 100w heater, and a quietflow filter (kinda small though, but workable) as well as the usual water additive and free food samples and a net. You should still be able to get one of those kits at aquarium world, but they had very few left last time I was in there. They are specially marked kits for $69.95, really a decent deal for what you get since hoods and lights are ridiculously expensive. A plastic full hood and fluorescent strip light usually run about $40 by themselves.

yes i know that, but i live at an apartment and i can not fit anything. my wife gave me the 10g for xmas. thats why i got back to fish, once i go to a house i will get a 55+ maybe 2 or 3 tanks. just not at the moment.