Sand substrate in a high flow tank...

[aquabee]

true I am more thinking flow in one direction lol I am starting low and if I want more I will add more. I guess it is high flow to me the two tanks I have now don't have a lot of flow compared to what I am trying to do...

I am really liking the looks of the torpedo sand...

I personally am not too big of a fan of torpedo sand. I've seen it in a tank before and it just looked like someone had poured rice as a substrate.

[sunkenmetal]

just power heads, or circ pumps too? Man... You need to go straight up vortech for this tank.

powerheads

[eklikewhoa]

Run a MagDrive pump and set it up like a closed loop system for your manifolds.

[ssrprelude]

Just power heads, or circ pumps too? Man... you need to go straight up Vortech for this tank.

Ohhhh Vortecs! Plenty of flow and less obtrusive.

[sunkenmetal]

Run a MagDrive pump and set it up like a closed loop system for your manifolds.

I have been thinking about doing this. It is why I haven't built anything yet lol...

I don't know if I would have to plumb it outside the tank or in the tank but it would take up more room...

[sunkenmetal]

Ohhhh Vortecs! Plenty of flow and less obtrusive.

I considered vortechs but I need to be able to return the water being pumped to the other end of the tank.

[Bedlamer]

Originally Posted by aquabee
Just power heads, or circ pumps too? Man... you need to go straight up Vortech for this tank.
Ohhhh Vortecs! Plenty of flow and less obtrusive.

Ohhhh Vortecs! Plenty of flow and less obtrusive.

Here is a link to the guy that first invented the river manifold tank http://www.loaches.com/articles/rive...anifold-design
I had no idea about these either till I saw Sukenmetal's thread here and looked it up. The idea is to create a swift water river/stream enviroment with the majority of the the flow going from one side to another. Some ways of doing this is to have a cannister filter's intake on one side of the tank and the return on the opposite side. Could be done with a corner overflow on one corner and the return opposite too I suspose. The innovative thing the guy in the link above did was to have sponge filters connected to a frame work of PVC pipes laid under the substrate, having water pulled through them by power heads similar to an Aqua Clear or a Maxi-Jet (as opposed to the other type of power head--circulation pumps/propeller pumps like the Vortech commonly seen in saltwater tanks and troph tanks). That helps to create a flow that is going in one direction. The Vortechs create a tremendous amount of flow and circulation, but its creates more of a gyre/swirling effect (the water current has to return to the other side of the tank somehow, creating back eddies--which would not provide the unidirectional flow desired in this type of tank). So Sunkenmetal said he is using powerheads (or as Ek mentioned you could use a submersible pump instead) and two Eheim 2217s to set this up. Makes sense?

[sunkenmetal]

Originally Posted by aquabee
Just power heads, or circ pumps too? Man... you need to go straight up Vortech for this tank.
Ohhhh Vortecs! Plenty of flow and less obtrusive.

Here is a link to the guy that first invented the river manifold tank http://www.loaches.com/articles/rive...anifold-design
I had no idea about these either till I saw Sukenmetal's thread here and looked it up. The idea is to create a swift water river/stream enviroment with the majority of the the flow going from one side to another. Some ways of doing this is to have a cannister filter's intake on one side of the tank and the return on the opposite side. Could be done with a corner overflow on one corner and the return opposite too I suspose. The innovative thing the guy in the link above did was to have sponge filters connected to a frame work of PVC pipes laid under the substrate, having water pulled through them by power heads similar to an Aqua Clear or a Maxi-Jet (as opposed to the other type of power head--circulation pumps/propeller pumps like the Vortech commonly seen in saltwater tanks and troph tanks). That helps to create a flow that is going in one direction. The Vortechs create a tremendous amount of flow and circulation, but its creates more of a gyre/swirling effect (the water current has to return to the other side of the tank somehow, creating back eddies--which would not provide the unidirectional flow desired in this type of tank). So Sunkenmetal said he is using powerheads (or as Ek mentioned you could use a submersible pump instead) and two Eheim 2217s to set this up. Makes sense?

Thanks for the post :)

I am thinking one mag drive instead of power heads it will be cleaner and easier to hide...

I want two 2217s because it will fit better in the stand and redundancy and I can customized the media. I want to run a UV filter on one and a heater on the other. I don't need a heater for the tank since they are cooler water fish but you never know when you will need one. I know I could do that with a 2262 but it would be a really tight fit..

So I will have three filters.

A river tank manifold which is basically a big sponge filter and two eheims...

[Bedlamer]

...and thanks to you sunkenmetal, I now have one more type of tank to add to the bucket list. Although at my current rate I'm going to need 3 more lifetimes to get through the list.

[Bedlamer]

There are advantages to using the power head method though. If you use more than one PH, it gives you redundant back up--although I don't think Mag-Drives fail very often, and you still have two 2217s running providing flow and filtration. I think the much more important factor is the degree to which you could aerate the water. I didn’t go back to research your particular stocking list you mentioned earlier in the thread—but in general it seems the fish adapted to this niche benefit from very well aerated water. The benefit of the power heads is that the Marineland Max-Jets and Hagen Aqua Clears allow for a venturi air hose to further aerate the water. The originator of the manifold system found however that the limit for it to work is no more than 6” under the surface of the water. He mounted his power heads fairly low in the tank, and used a simple diaphragm air pump to force air down to the power heads. So, it might not be needed for your set up—but it wouldn’t hurt either—lol.

[sunkenmetal]

There are advantages to using the power head method though. If you use more than one PH, it gives you redundant back up--although I don't think Mag drives fail very often, and you still have two 2217s running providing flow and filtration. I think the much more important factor is the degree to which you could aerate the water. I didn’t go back to research your particular stocking list you mentioned earlier in the thread—but in general it seems the fish adapted to this niche benefit from very well aerated water. The benefit of the power heads is that the Marine land Max-Jets and Hagen Aqua Clears allow for a venturi air hose to further aerate the water. The originator of the manifold system found however that the limit for it to work is no more than 6” under the surface of the water. He mounted his power heads fairly low in the tank, and used a simple diaphragm air pump to force air down to the power heads. So, it might not be needed for your set up—but it wouldn’t hurt either—lol.

good point on the question. I could use a inline venturi that eheim makes. I will most likely use powerhaeds I keep changing my mind.

[Bedlamer]

I looked up some flow rates to compare the 2 brands of power heads I'm familiar with and the Mag-Drive pumps. One of the biggest Marineland offering is the 1200. It offers 295 gph in PH mode. So 2 of them would be 590 gph.

http://www.marineland.com/sites/marineland/products/Detail.aspx?id=3421#tabs-Ask

(there is also there less flexible Penguin model rated up to 300 gph)

http://www.marineland.com/sites/marineland/products/Detail.aspx?id=3386

The Hagen Aqua Clears have 2 large PHs the 70 and the 110.

http://www.marinedepot.com/powerheads_pumps_hagen_aquaclear-ap.html

The 70s are rated to 350 gph with air. The 110 is rated to 935 gph (no separate with air rating?) The interesting thing about the 110 is that it has a 1” barb fitting, and if you’re using 1” pvc it might improve flow more? (I have 1^st year university physics from a long time ago—no courses in fluid dymanics---lol). The 110 does have the air venturi feature.

The Mag-Drives come in an assortment of sizes….

http://www.marinedepot.com/powerheads_pumps_danner_mag_drive_supreme-ap.html

From at least 65 gph to 1800 gph.

I’m looking forward to seeing your build as it progresses.

[eklikewhoa]

powerheads take up space in the tank, the more equipment shown inside the less appealing it is due to the distractions.

Honestly a vortech would really get the job down with no fuss. I know you want some sort of circular flow thing going but I think you will soon find out that using a vortech would create a similar current with less fuss.

[sunkenmetal]

powerheads take up space in the tank, the more equipment shown inside the less appealing it is due to the distractions.

Honestly a vortech would really get the job down with no fuss. I know you want some sort of circular flow thing going but I think you will soon find out that using a vortech would create a similar current with less fuss.

Vortechs are nice... Still going to hit the end of the tank and go all over the place... decisions decisions hmmmm

You got a vortech I could borrow to test it out... LOL

Or I could just put turtles in it...

[aquabee]

Come on Nick. Vortech all the way. It'll hit the end but you'll still have the majority of your flow in one general direction.

Last night I had a dream about setting up my dream tank with all the badass equipment n stuff... It definitely included several vortechs... Maybe I shouldn't fall asleep watching "Tanked" anymore.