My Clown Pleco died :(

[CharlesTheG]

Hmm well my water change schedule is an bit off. I do regular changes but not on schedule. For instance the tank won't go more than a month without a water change. I do it every two or three weeks but it fluctuates but I always do at least a 25% water change. And ever since I bought and aquaclear 50 I was very lenient on changing the media I would just rinse the carbon and bio ax and sponge in water I have since then bought filter floss so last night when I did a water changed the sponge and added more filter floss. But I still have the same biomax


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[CharlesTheG]

My water is usual super hard (TWSS) and so Mnemonic what media would you recommend to help with water chemistry?


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[KhmerStyle]

What size tank is this and what are your equipment currently running on this tank?

[mnemenoi]

Old tank syndrome is deceptive and can give you some very out of the norm reading which can be frustrating and actually hard to fix. I'll try and break down what is occurring and its chain of events. Then give recommendations on filtration, media, and schedule.

Bioload exceeds water change volume/schedule (Too much Nitrates, not enough water changes occurring). Usually this occurs over extended time periods, but I have seen tanks run for years like this Yes years. Nitrates will skyrocket <500 ppm, many fish will slowly waste away though most slowly adapt to the conditions. Bacteria will increase and infections or anything that would normally be fought off naturally can become a serious condition. The high Nitrates will alter the waters chemistry and lower the Ph (The water is still hard, but the acidic effect of the Nitrates in this concentration overcomes it). IF the Ph falls below 6.0, most denitrifying bacteria will actually die off, thus breaking the nitrogen cycle and Ammonia will begin to rise (very easy sign this is occurring is an Ammonia reading in an established tank and strangely low Ph). A very odd aspect here is that at a lower Ph Ammonia (very deadly) is transformed into Ammonium (not nearly as deadly, more akin to Nitrate) and begins to increase slowly. At this point you have a super high Nitrate reading, and can eventually achieve an insane Ammonia reading (actually Ammonium, but most aquarists tests do not differentiate between the two very similar chemicals). At this point the Ph will eventually plummet to around a 5, until the pollutants are so high the fish eventually succumb or non-aerobic bacteria begin breaking them down and keep it running a bit longer (it will eventually crash). At this point even water changes can get dangerous! If we were to simply water change the tank, the new water can increase the Ph (even temporarily) and due to the lack of any bacteria (they are mostly dead) the Ammonium, now becomes Ammonia and the fish die. These are best handles very slowly with frequent 5-10% changes and a day between to allow the bacteria and water chemistry to slowly rebound. An active water change schedule will keep Nitrates low and avoid any build ups.

Water Changes - To determine your water change schedule you will need a Nitrate test kit (I recommend a liquid kit, but strips can work in a pinch). Once you have achieved a Nitrate level of >5 ppm Nitrates in your tank, decide your 'magic number/highest Nitrate level before lowering'. Many fish differ in requirements and preferences, also diseases such as hole in the head can be avoided completely by keeping the tank below 50 ppm so its a good starting point (scale less fish and inverts need far better). Measure daily, feed normally until you reach that number (50 ppm for example), at this point you water change 50%, your Nitrates are now at 25 ppm and are again going to rise. Whereas water changing a larger volume will lower the Nitrates that are left (90% WC, would yield 5 ppm left) and you again start over until you achieve this result and know when and what volume you must water change to achieve the results you desire for your fishes specific needs. Many suggest 25% WC weekly, but depending on so many unknown factors, this could be far too much (not likely) or far too little. 75% Weekly is decent for a heavily stocked tank. With our Fahaka Puffer, we needed to perform 75-80% WC 3 times weekly to maintain its optimal conditions.

Filtration - In general a filter doubling its recommended tank size is preferred and can be easier to maintenance, just get 2 and service 1 every other month. There is never such a thing as overfiltering an aquarium. Mechanical filtration is always useful, as with biological and never usually needs replacing (just rinse with dechlorinated water so as to not kill your bacteria and restart the cycle in the tank, it lasts for years and years). Chemical filtration is in my opinion malarkey and best used for targeting a specific issue. Carbon is the most often seen and I think silly if not frustrating. It draws in Nitrates and various other chemicals, but when it becomes too saturated it releases them back into the water. So after a terrific water change, the carbon moves the chemistry right back to its original point and frustrates newer aquarists as they don't realize they have a Nitrate pillow in the tank. Using it for removing medication and tossing it after a week or two is fine, but I think it just wastes time and money. We do use Purigen, but it is targeting tannins our driftwood releases and does not release anything back into the column and when it gets dark, it should be regenerated. That would be my recommendation when it comes to chemical filtration media, though I think Chemi-Pure acts similarly (never used it, but I'm certain someone might chime in who has).

Hope that helps and good luck

[CharlesTheG]

That old tank syndrome sounds like the reason people can get away with no water changes and such that explains a lot. Poor fish though! I can imagine something similar to that happened to my tank at some point in the past six months because I would do like 50% water changes but not change the carbon.
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My tank is a 20 tall I have an aqua clear 50 on it with a bunch of plants mayacca, backpack anubius amazon sword staurogyn repents etc...
However my anubius and swords developed some black hair algae so almost all of there leaves got trimmed off with last nights water change as well. So from what I've learned here I'm actually headed out to a sw LFS to maybe buy a piece of lime stone or maybe a handful of crushed coral. Also so I should just throw out the carbon basically because I was also looking into the purigen. And as of now in my filter is only filter floss sponge and biomax



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[mnemenoi]

Hope that made sense, lol. I get rolling and forget to mention things here and there or get it twisted around. I wanted to mention that plants are actually great in that sort of system as they utilize and uptake Ammonium, Nitrite, and Nitrates. I'd guess that might be a solid reason your Ph was unable to fall below a certain point. It can cause Ammonia burn on leaves and after the Ph shifts very far most of the leaves drop due to such a dramatic shift. Eventually they regrow and I believe something similar occurs during what they call 'Crypt Melting'.

Limestone or Coral can help, but regular water changes will help more then anything else. Get a nice python water changer and do 75% water changes weekly, your fish and tanks will look great and never have to worry about parameters. I toss out my carbon and usually recommend other do it unless their is a specific need to use it and they are generally always short term as most lack a visible indicator to show you how saturated the media is, i.e. removing medication treatment or a Nitrate absorbing pillow

[CharlesTheG]

I got about a pound sized piece of lime stone that I'm going to somehow make look like a boulder because it will look so odd in my tank however I'm gonna try and cover it as much as I can in java miss till it just looks like a hill! And I have a standard roofing syphon so water changes are easy id love to do a 75 a week but I think I'd get kicked outta the house lmao! That's why I do 50 every couple of weeks. But he'll yeah it helped thanks for all the dope knowledge you dropped!


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[Brileeant808]

Yeah dude that temperature is way too low.. What did you have him with that didn't call out for tropical temps?? http://plecostomus.org/ I'm surprised he lasted that long. (no offense)

[CharlesTheG]

Actually just cherry barbs and corydoras and I had it low for the plants set at 72 but it got colder that day now I move it up to 76 or should I move it up to 78?


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[Brileeant808]

77-80 is a great temperature

[morpheus]

Actually just cherry barbs and corydoras and I had it low for the plants set at 72 but it got colder that day now I move it up to 76 or should I move it up to 78?


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the temp of 72F is even low for barbs and corys, but they may just be more tolerant.

Sometimes those knobs on heaters are difficult to get the right temperature. Just play around with it until the temp settles in the upper 70s. most tropical fish stay around 78. the plants should still be ok in that temp. my plant tank, only a 10 gal, but it stays constant with an automatic heat sensor.