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**Brownsnoutuk** · 03-17-2008, 08:03 PM

Re: home brew engineers

What pump is it?

**cope** · 03-17-2008, 08:06 PM

Re: home brew engineers

only info I can give is .. it's a grundfos quiet one does not give gallon flow info... not sure...

**cope** · 03-17-2008, 08:12 PM

Re: home brew engineers

picture extra pump

**CichlidFan** · 03-17-2008, 08:18 PM

Re: home brew engineers

There are a lot of variables here, the amount of water that is flowing into the sump, and the diameter of the lines in and out and the size of the pump returning the water. I like this diagram/layout for two reasons, more flow on return and you could use a stronger pump to return the water.

Now as I see it, it really boils down to a matter of balancing the intake vs. the return, adjusting where the overflow boxes sit will determine how much water the sump is receiving. And the butterfly valve there in the return line could be used to adjust the return. Looks like fun.

ENJOY

CF

**Zulaab** · 03-17-2008, 09:11 PM

Re: home brew engineers

Cope... the skimmer returns are they both 1" lines down to the sump ?
The pump.. is there any kind of markings giving it a model number ? It sounds like to me the impeller needs to be replaced in the pump.
What kind of sump do you have ? Any markings on it ?
I would open the valve all the way and see what happens. Does it pump any faster.
Recommendation may be to replace the pump with something more powerful depending on what kind of sump you have.
I have a Mag 5 on a Pro-clear 75 which is pushing about 300 gph through it.
Let us know those things above and I think we can figure out what is wrong with it.

**cope** · 03-17-2008, 09:24 PM

Re: home brew engineers

The sump is a gulf stream.... it has a pipe turning around and spraying the intake to the sump... and it rains down over the bio balls.... the valve I use to regulate the return to the tank... as to much return runs the sump dry... to less return over folws the sump..... I think the problem is not enuff volumn coming into the sump... there is no marking on the pump... that I can see.... I need to figute out the height of the over flow tank inside the tank.... as I see how being deeper allows for more water volumn higher for less... it's a fine balance... messing with it now to try different techniques... keep em comin....

**Zulaab** · 03-17-2008, 10:03 PM

Re: home brew engineers

Cope.. stop the pump and the sump should fill to 75% capacity. If not fill water into the sump until there is 75% capacity in the sump. Now start the sump and watch how much is removed out of the system. Once running grab a maker and make a note on the sump as to where the max water level needs to be. Now once you have done this.. How much water enters and exits the system ? Any problems with this setup ?

All the yellow lines going down are they at least 1" piping ? You want those to be bigger than the white return lines. If they are not at least 1" I would think about replacing them with 1" lines. You can purchase 1" flexible hose to connect to your sump. From the drawing it looks like the two connect into a single line. Is this one line a 1" too or bigger ?

You want obviously the connection from below the junction to be larger if possible. You may if you have the time take a few pictures to show and someone who is more familiar with wet/dry's give their input.

**cope** · 03-17-2008, 10:22 PM

Re: home brew engineers

Update... problem.... the hose leading into the sump... was too long and hung down below inlet of sump.... I tied it up and both overflow tank seemed to level out.... also I believe that I only need one outlet (back to tank) hose... this will enable the pump to flow at a higher rate...... now that the sump hose has been corrected... I think I have some plumbing to do.... the system is good... I just think it was one of those great ideas that wasn't ............ well...... ..

**cope** · 03-17-2008, 10:28 PM

Re: home brew engineers

well if you can make heads or tails of this pic.. too close to the wall... the pipe leading to the sump is 1" the pipe leading back to the tank is 3/4"

**cope** · 03-17-2008, 10:29 PM

Re: home brew engineers

here is the sump... notice the hose.. flex hose... I tied it up

**Zulaab** · 03-17-2008, 10:43 PM

Re: home brew engineers

Looks like a big sump... Like I said.. try and stop the pump and let the sump fill up. Let it fill to the 75% water level above the return (ie lowest point in the sump) and then turn on the pump.. Also see how quick he removes the extra water back down the running level. If it disappears slowly then you are having a problem the pump and not the overflow. If you can remove the pump without to many problem I would check and see if you can get to the impeller and check it. It sounds like the pump might not push enough water for the size of your sump.

Just my 2c worth.

**PhishPhreek** · 03-17-2008, 10:49 PM

Re: home brew engineers

Max flow rate is determined by the pump with the valve wide open and no obstructions in the return piping.
If you want more flow you have to raise the sump up higher or buy a bigger pump.

As long as the overflow lines are not plugged, and they keep the tank level at the over flow point (not overflowing onto the floor

)
they are big enough for the pump you are using. If the new bigger pump sends so much water to the tank that it overflows, use the valve to reduce the flow.

If you add a float switch and 1/4" water line to your sump, you can keep the tank topped off without hauling buckets across the room.

If you are part home brew plumber, you can add that second pump parallel to the existing one and double the flow.

**cope** · 03-18-2008, 12:42 AM

Re: home brew engineers

From looking at the current set up.... DOES THE PIPE THAT RETURNS WATER TO THE TANK, have to be under the water level? the more I study the current set up.... the more I want to change it... DO I NEED 2 OVER FLOW TANKS? It would seem to me that the over flow tank should be on one end of the tank and the return pipe should be on the other end.......... creating a flow...... and I personlly think that one would work fine...and if 2 is just for doulbe flow.. then couldn't you have then side by side?

maybe I am thinking about this all wrong.... the trickle filter is biological filtration... not mechanical... so maybe current or flow is not even needed or desired..... and the oxygenation of the water would be from the water trickling over the bio media... thus there is no need for water surface aggitaion to create the oxygen needed.... it is already oxygenated by the trickle system... do we need and extra filter for mechanical filtration to get rid of fish waste ... I know I am bugging the hell out of you guys.... I could just do this and learn trial & error....but thought since you guys have done this more than I have that someone has a proven system.... seemslike research on the NET produces more questions than answers.. Everyone has a bucket, or plastic tote to DIY make a trickle filter....but do not explain the syphon and overfolw system.... flow rates and pump rates... I can not even find a picture of the "Complete Set UP" on manufactors sites...... they sell it but don't explain it.... I am just over curious... and this weekend I will build a better system using the exsisting parts I have now....... the new diagram shown here....doyou think this will work better?

**Zulaab** · 03-18-2008, 01:46 AM

Re: home brew engineers

Cope,

The two intakes are needed if you need to push the gallons per hour turn over rate for the fish you have in the tank.
If you are going to redo your tank setup this is what I would do. You have the right idea about the overflows, but run a single return line back into the tank ending up with a diffuser. Go down to the LFS and replace the return nossle with something like this marineland magnum outlet tube with diffuser and the necessary connectors to convert the single line PVC pipe end to Vinyl tubing and connect the diffuser on the end. Then install that in the other end of the tank from the overflows. The diffuser is going to be just underneath the surface and will give enough agitation to the water that is needed. The one I bought the other day from Fishland is for a 5/8 hose and cost me $7.99.

There are other diffusers out there that might be a little bigger allowing you to directly connect a bigger hose to it. 5/8's is prolly a little small. I would look for a diffuser around 3/4 and then convert the 1" pipe with a 3/4 fitting and then a hose (small 6" is all you need) to connect the diffuser to it. Once you have done this I think your system would work great for you. As I said I like the design you came up with.

I did read the part about the pump being powerful enough, so I would for sure continue to use two intakes, but like you have in your picture on one end. This will create the movement of the water you are looking for.

Oxygenation is done when the water goes over the bioballs - you are correct.

Your mechanical filtration should be done by the drip tray that is above the bio-balls. You will need to put a pad there to catch the big material and then if you want to a smaller more effective pad (sponge) in your water way. Many people remove this sponge as it diminishes the water flow in the sump and most people would rather just have the water turn over so that there is more oxygenation and the dirt will be caught on the next round around.

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