Discus turning black...

[AmberDawn]

Hi...
I have 2 red melon discus. One I bought at the auction in the Fall, when I got him he was pure orange with no black on him. Now his fins are pretty much all black and he has black pin dots all over, especially his face. At the last auction I just recently bought another Red Melon. The same as the first fish, he was all orange with no other color and now after being in the tank a week he is starting to turn black, especially his fins. I thought with the first discus that maybe it was just how he was, but now that the other is doing the same I'm curious as to if this is normal or not. I have typed everything into google and have found nothing. Is this normal or is there something else going on? I have a Blue Diamond as well and her color has not changed.

[imagirlgeek]

Re: Discus turning black...

Do you have pics Amber?

[imagirlgeek]

Re: Discus turning black...

Are there any other symptoms?  Hanging around in corners or the bottom of the tank.  Are they scratching against rocks?  Do they have excessive slime on their body?  How long has it been going on?  Are they eating?

[Brownsnoutuk]

Re: Discus turning black...

Probably stressed.

[Zulaab]

Re: Discus turning black...

I am sure that the Discus people can jump in here..
They are stressed and this is what they look when they are not happy.

Here is what I would check
Do a water check and make sure that your ammonia, nitrites and Nitrates are in check
Next what is your pH, GH and water temp.

If the temp is not 84 minimum, raise the temp to that temperature.
Also check to make sure that you have plenty of aeration in the tank, Discus likes warm water, but when you keep it high like that you have to increase your aeration too.

Be ready to do several water changes like 20% each day for 3-4 days.  Let someone like Walter or GulfCoastDiscus give their input.

[imagirlgeek]

Re: Discus turning black...

Amber - Let me know if you want me to come over and we can work out a day this week.

[justdoit]

Re: Discus turning black...

don't know your water change schedule but more is better.   when I was growing mine I was doing everyday up to 40%.
Now I do at least 3 x week 40 % and I have very good water straight from the tap.  
The fact that not all are changing says a stress factor is also involved .   check water parimeters,  do they have security from bullies,    parasites,   are they eating??     did only one of your 1st two red melons change?

[jklntx]

Re: Discus turning black...

I picked up a melon at the auction before last too. It has peppering as well.

What I have learned is peppering and black fins is a trait of pigeon bloods and melons have pigeon traits. The peppering is more common among the poorer strains. We won these at an auction. Discus get top dollar, and in my experience, sellers  do not typically get top dollar for their fish. I think it might be fair to say we did not win the highest grade of discus at the auction.

That being said, peppering and black finnage stands out moreso when they are stressed, but as this is my first experience I don't know if its really stressed at all. It is sharing a 75 with 2 turquoise and an adult silver angel. There is bickering among the 3 but nothing anymore typical of SA cichlids.
It eats aggressively like the angel and is not shy and reclusive though discus don't like sudden movement around the tanks. Have you noticed that too? So if you could share their behaviors that might help.

Otherwise, if they are acting normal they may be alright. If you want more info...consider joining simplydiscus.com...Great forum for discus. Dan (GulfCoastDiscus) is a contributor.

[nacra99]

Re: Discus turning black...

Amber, a pic will definitely help.

Without a pic i can't say for sure, but it sounds like peppering (especially for the discus that you bought in fall). If it is indeed peppering, then it's a genetic thing and there's not much you can do.
Many people have reported that peppering is not as obvious in discus that are housed in bare bottomed tanks which have a lighter colored background, so that's something you can try if you wish.

True melons are descended from and have pigeon blood (PB) genes which increase the possibility of peppering as the discus matures.
True Blue diamonds don't have PB and should not develop peppering.

Another possibility is that your discus are stressed, look for clamped fins, heavy breathing, hunger strikes, shedding slime coat. Stressed discus are generally dark everywhere, not just peppering on the fins and face. If they are stressed, then it's another story. But since your Blue diamond is fine, I'm going to say that it's just your melons peppering up.

Marc

[jklntx]

Re: Discus turning black...

The background coloring is a good point. I replicate SA stream biotypes, so my water is tea colored with lots of branches, driftwood,leaves and floating plants.. I also use a darker background on tank. That would contribute to the easier recognition of peppering.

Here is a description of the pigeon blood strain I found that might help...

The tails of pigeon blood discus are almost always black. Some of the varieties of this strain have more or less straitions/ black spotting and/or creamier body coloring. This strain was developed by  Kitti Phanaitthi in 1991 from a mutation in Thailand. It's been said if you can grow these pigeon blood discus out in bright lights, the black spots, "peppering", will be less.

http://www.aquariumhobbyist.com/discus/strains/index.html

[wvgdiscus]

Re: Discus turning black...

 and in my experience, sellers  do not typically get top dollar for their fish. I think it might be fair to say we did not win the highest grade of discus at the auction.

Before you say something please be sure of what you say.

Peppering is caused from a few different things.
It can be from the genes, stress & their surroundings.
Yes pigeon blood discus will show peppering if they are stressed out but the blue diamonds will not show peppering.
If a discus is going to show peppering from the genes it will have the peppering from being in a bag for several hours. If it did not show the peppering when you got it home. I would rule out the genes part.
If the discus has turned black then the water quality needs to be check.
When your doing water changes what all are you doing to the water?

Please post some pics of the whole tank & discus.
Traci the sooner you get the pics up the better.

Oh by the way simply is a very one way forum for discus & its not geared to the buyers there.
If some one & they will give out bad advice you better not try to ask anything about the bad advice there or they will ban you.

[jklntx]

Re: Discus turning black...

I dont think we need to assume the worst when given minimal information. To automatically assume there is a problem can create more problems than there actually is.   The topic of peppering is well written about on the net....its effects range from genes, to lighting, to stress. So one, several, or all of these could be a factor. Its good to know what all the possible factors are, rather than reacting to one. I was hoping to diffuse anxiety when there may be no need for it.

We all agree, a picture, with a description of behavior, will  help give the best advice.

[wvgdiscus]

Re: Discus turning black...

Peppering does come from stress, genes & their surroundings.
But to say it comes from lighting these days is a long ways off.
Cause now they have pigeon bloods that will never show peppering in any conditions.
These are some of the most desired discus around.
For me it makes it harder to tell when they will be stressed.

Also I might know a thing or two about the discus she bought at the auction to.
I hope no one is assuming the worst to.

Lets wait for the pics.

[AmberDawn]

Re: Discus turning black...

Thank you everyone for all your replies...

Wvgdiscus... We have done two water changes 75% in the last week in a half.
The only thing we do for the water change is drain, add water and chlorine remover which has the slime coat enhancers in it.
They seem to be very healthy, they are all eating very well, acutally better than they have ever eaten. They are not hiding in corners or scratching on rocks. They are all swimming out in the open.

Traci... Here are some pictures of them.

In these pictures it is very hard to see the spots, you can see them much better in person. Traci, let me know what day is good for you. Saturday would probably be best for me, but let me know your schedule.









It is very hard to see the spots on the face, but you can see how dark his fins are. They were not this dark when I first got him

Thank you everyone!!

[AmberDawn]

Re: Discus turning black...

I just measured the ph and general hardness of the tank and the ph was between 6.0 and 6.5 the GH was very high 180. I read that discus like a GH of 30. Could this cause the black dots or cause them to be stressed? Everthing else was fine-NItrite, KH and Nitrate.