reasons not to keep Africans w/ an Oscar?

[fishymommy]

Okay, here's the dealio.  We have been going through several tank changeovers recently and for a while I have had to house my African's with a few community fish I wanted to hang on to and my husband's Oscar I got him for Valentine's Day.  We knew we would be getting a bigger tank for the Oscar and we have it now and are getting ready to set it up.  He went into the tank with the Africans and community fish last, and they pretty much all let him know he was the new kid in town and everything is actually quite peaceful in there.  

So, the fish together in this tank - it's a 110, btw, are:
4 diamond tetras
1 large Opaline Gourami (same size as the Oscar, actually)
2 GBRs
1 blue stripey African
1 lavender plaid African
1 Daffodil Brichardi
1 Firemouth
1 chocolate pleco
1 albino BN pleco

So, yes, I know this is quite an eclectic mix and I have lots of hiding places for everyone and it's actually been fine.  The tetras cruise in a school, the Gourami hangs out and holds her own, the blue and lavender Africans chase each other once in a while, the Daffodil is fine, the plecos are fine, the GBRs stay in their cubby holes and the Oscar is more concerned with when I'm going to feed him than anything going on around him in the tank.  If I'm in the room, he is constantly hanging out at the front begging.  It's been a temporary solution while we work at getting our other tanks set up.  I was going to keep the 110 as a community tank, but now that I've gotten hold of a large RR tank, I'm setting up another SW tank and won't have a community tank.  

SO, this brings me to my questions.  What are the reasons I can't keep the Africans with the Oscar?  I have a high PH of 8.2 here anyway and I never bother trying to bring it down, because I know the fish will adjust as long as the PH is consistent, which it is.  So far, they all are fine together and I feel like the Africans are happy and moving into a 6 foot tank will make everyone even happier.  They're all growing like weeds, so I must be doing something right.  

Also, since the Oscar came into this odd family last, isn't it conceivable that if I were to keep the diamond tetras and gourami with him permanently that he may never bother them because he is being raised with them?  I was thinking of getting about 6 more diamonds before we move everyone into the larger tank and introducing them all at the same time.  That way the school will be nice and large.  I know this is far from a "natural" habitat, but I am really not looking forward to giving up all of my (much prettier) fish so my husband's big arse Oscar can have a 6 foot tank all to himself.  

Anyway, I just thought I'd ask you all for your opinions.  This is the first Oscar we've had, so I don't know what the long term success of keeping them with smaller fish can be.  One thing I know for sure is we will never feed the Oscar live feeder fish, so maybe since he will have never had them, he won't decide my other fish look like snacks?  

And what about the Africans?  They're so pretty and I think they get large enough to avoid becoming snackfood.  ???

Thanks in advance!  Please don't hammer on me too hard, I really do have my fishes best interests at heart.  I actually gave away most of my community fish already, these are just the ones I've hung on to because I really don't want to give them up and I had planned on giving them their own tank.

Oh yeah, I do know the Firemouth is not African.  What about him?  Can he stay?  He seems fairly peaceful but still tough enough to defend himself if he needs to.

[MJY6087]

Re: reasons not to keep Africans w/ an Oscar?

the biggest lesson I learned about introducing different "types" of fish was that they were initially peaceful but overtime grew to be very aggressive eventually killing some fish

[CichlidFan]

Re: reasons not to keep Africans w/ an Oscar?

Where's my sledge hammer..... :) Annette, I have a soft spot for Oscars too, the oscar will be fine for a while, but sooner or later, you may find him with a fin sticking out of his mouth. I love my 2 Oscars, but I know every day that I don't find homes for them, I'm taking a big chance of never seeing my leleupe's again, or my cylindricus.

I would set up a 75 just for the Oscar and then you could get him a few tanks mates like some really nice severums or JD's to keep him company.

CF

[fishymommy]

Re: reasons not to keep Africans w/ an Oscar?

ahhhh, that's what I figured I'd hear.  Well, the 75 idea is cool, but the hubby has his new 125 tank for his Oscar.  It's HIS Oscar.  Not mine.  The thing makes me nervous actually.  He's always jumping at me when I'm feeding them and I can't put my hand in the tank anymore because he makes me too nervous.  And this at only around 4-5".  I've told hubby he's going to have to start cleaning his own tank and feeding his own d*&( fish cuz I'm not doing it once the thing is much bigger than he is.  Yeah right.  

Anyway, I have a friend I can give my community fish to and I've got a guy taking the Rams with the 110 when he takes it.  I still need a home for the Africans, and I guess the Firemouth?  

It's not too big of a price to pay though, as my husband spends all his spare time in the garage working on getting my next reef tank ready to come in the house!  

[Zulaab]

Re: reasons not to keep Africans w/ an Oscar?

fishymommy -- as many will tell you.. if the fish is minimum of 1/2 the length of the Oscar when he reaches maturity he will one of these days believe the fish in there are his feeder fish and make a tasty lunch of them.
Now regarding being scared of the fish I would not worry a lot.   I know he is big and will get in the 125 to about 12 inches by 1 yr old, he is quite docile to fish and humans that are to big for him.

Here is a list of what he will do for you :)

4 diamond tetras (Breakfast)
1 large Opaline Gourami (same size as the Oscar, actually) (his friend forever)
2 GBRs  (I am not sure what a GBR is.. google says great barrier reef which I know is incorrect)
1 blue stripey African (if less than 5-6in by the time Oscar is 1ft...  he could be in for trouble)
1 lavender plaid African (see above)
1 Daffodil Brichardi (lunch)
1 Firemouth (possible dinner, unless he/she gets to the 6-7in mark)
1 chocolate pleco (if less than 5.. possible problem)
1 albino BN pleco  (possible midnight snack)

Can you keep africans and south americans together sure...  but when you ask people who have, you will find that because of the differences with how they act when grown out, it could spell problems.  In time most SA who end up being large fish will dominate the smaller tank mates who the Africans are going to end up being.

again please dont be afraid of feeding oscar.  I had one and he was so easy to feed when it got bigger.. could hand feed ...  they are very docile to their masters.. even though they have the puppy mentality about being at the front of the glass all the time begging.

[Brownsnoutuk]

Re: reasons not to keep Africans w/ an Oscar?

GBR = German Blue Ram?

[CichlidFan]

Re: reasons not to keep Africans w/ an Oscar?

Another docile little morsel for the oscar..... :)

CF

[eklikewhoa]

Re: reasons not to keep Africans w/ an Oscar?

Talk about good eatin!

[SteveCGG]

Re: reasons not to keep Africans w/ an Oscar?

Do fish eat sushi?

[fishymommy]

Re: reasons not to keep Africans w/ an Oscar?

You guys are funny!   I get it, I'm finding them all new homes this week!  Couple more ?s though.

Now regarding being scared of the fish I would not worry a lot.   I know he is big and will get in the 125 to about 12 inches by 1 yr old, he is quite docile to fish and humans that are to big for him.

Here is a list of what he will do for you :)

4 diamond tetras (Breakfast)
1 large Opaline Gourami (same size as the Oscar, actually) (his friend forever)
2 GBRs  (I am not sure what a GBR is.. google says great barrier reef which I know is incorrect)
1 blue stripey African (if less than 5-6in by the time Oscar is 1ft...  he could be in for trouble)
1 lavender plaid African (see above)
1 Daffodil Brichardi (lunch)
1 Firemouth (possible dinner, unless he/she gets to the 6-7in mark)
1 chocolate pleco (if less than 5.. possible problem)
1 albino BN pleco  (possible midnight snack)

again please dont be afraid of feeding oscar.  I had one and he was so easy to feed when it got bigger.. could hand feed ...  they are very docile to their masters.. even though they have the puppy mentality about being at the front of the glass all the time begging.

Zulaab, I love the menu!  Too funny!  In a morbid way.  K, the chocolate pleco is already about 6", but I really don't think I want to keep him anyway.  He's messy.  So if anyone is wanting a chocolate pleco, he'll be available soon!  

How big do Firemouths get?  He/she is in the 4" range right now.  Oscar (Herb) is around 4-5" right now.  Should I go ahead and find him a home too?  

As for the Opaline Gourami, are you being sarcastic?  She is roughly the same size as the Oscar is right NOW, but won't get more than around 5".   Can I really keep her?  

As for the Oscar, I'm not really AFRAID of him, he just makes me jumpy because he is SO excited at feeding time and he jumps at me and I don't want him to jump out of the tank and then I have to try to pick him up and put him back.  

What other types of fish do you recommend for tankmates for the Oscar?  Also, should they be introduced at the same time as he moves over to his new home, or will it be okay to add in new fish later?  I was thinking we could maybe get a shark or two or some tinfoil barbs or silver dollars.  Or maybe a couple of catfish?  Pictus or maybe synodontis?  

Thanks ya'll!

[Lucy]

Re: reasons not to keep Africans w/ an Oscar?

I have a full grown oscar in a 120 and he lived happily with my bala sharks (almost grown-close to 10-12 inches each) until I accidentally killed them. (don't attach your pythons to the garden hose-bad stuff lives in there) I really think they scared him with the way they twitch and move....but he is somewhat of a weenie.....he got corned by a piece of floating plant once and I thought he was going to jump out of the tank trying to get away.

Now he is living with a black ghost, 2 silver scats, and some feeder fish that he refuses to eat and a very large goldfish that was also at one time supposed to be his lunch.  

The general rule that I go by when adding fish to my oscar tank is in direct relation to the size of the oscars mouth, will the new fish fit in it??  I also look at how fast the new fish is, for instance, with my scats, the oscar could try but he will never catch those lightening fast buggers.  They are on the other side of the tank before he even knows they moved.

I also know that an oscar is one of the few fish that can recognize their owners and will actually grieve for them (for a short time anyway) when they get a new owner.  If you decide you really don't want the oscar anymore, just let me know, I have an opening in my 120.  He would do just fine in there with Al and I could always use another puppie  :wink:

[Zulaab]

Re: reasons not to keep Africans w/ an Oscar?

fishymommy -- sorry I was thinking it would still grow for a while longer..
GBR (if they are german blue Ram's are also on the snack menu) and your Gourami -- yeah I am sure that in a pinch it can be eaten without spices needed.

I would just be careful is all I am going to say about that

[fishymommy]

Re: reasons not to keep Africans w/ an Oscar?

No worries ya'll, most of the entrees have gone home with newaquamom.  The hors d ouvres (German Blue Rams) are still here and still not noticed by Herb.  He showed a bit of interest when we had the water level down to catch the others, but now that the water is up and decorations back in, he doesn't notice them as they hang out near the bottom close to driftwood they can hide under and he is always busy at the top running back and forth begging me to feed him.  (or her, how do you tell?)

I'm only hanging on to the rams for a couple more days because they guy who might be taking the tank wants them.  Newaquamom will be getting them if that deal falls through.  She's such a good fish mommy.  

Herb and his gang - Ms. Gourami, Mr. Firemouth and Mr. Chocolate Pleco - will be moving to their new 6 foot long 125 tank this weekend.  I must say, with the Africans gone, the mood of the tank is decidedly more peaceful.  The pleco is even out and about and sticking himself to the glass.  I was under the impression he didn't know how to do his job, but I think he was just hiding from the Africans.  

Lucy, I doubt my hubby will give up Herb anytime soon.  He loves that fish.  I'm the one who does all the caretaking, but also being the one who changes 99.9% of the diapers, I am not surprised.   :P  

How do you know they grieve for their owners?  How can you tell?  Just curious

[Zulaab]

Re: reasons not to keep Africans w/ an Oscar?

Oscars are monomorphic therefore making it hard to tell the difference.  If you know someone who really knows how to vent one they can tell you after catching the fish and looking at its vent.  With females the oval depositor is bigger than the males.   Again not something easily done.

I know if you cannot get rid of the GBR's I believe Fishlady was looking for some.. maybe I was mistaken too... who knows.. its 1:20am and I am getting tired:)