Angelfish

[jbicb3]

First, is there an area on this forum for Angelfish? Should I have posted under S.A. Cichlids?

Now the question(s).

What other fish and inverts (shrimp etc) can be kept with Angels? Something that won't eat or be eaten. I'm setting up a 55 for them, that is 4' long x 12 deep x ~22 high.

What plants are best for an Angel tank?

How much water current do they like?

How many is too many in a 55?

I plan on having 4 @ 40 watt bulbs running 12+ hrs/day, and maybe a moonlight at night. Is this going to disturb the Angels?

thx,
Jerry

[szidlon]

Re: Angelfish

Can't answer all you questions but I can tell you I put moonlights on my 75gl African tank and had a tremedous new growth of algae.  The lights are cool and the fish didn't seem to mind, but the algae kinda took away from the look.  I haven't used them in a while, the newness wore off pretty quickly after dealing with the algae.  It may have just been my tank, but I think the blue lights do have an effect on algae growth.  

Any plant experts out there know more about the effects of moonlights on algae growth?  I'm not a plant expert by any stretch of the imagination and would like to know more about the good/bad of moonlights on plants.

[SCOTT]

Re: Angelfish

Hm, moonlights and algae growth, thats a new one. I don;t see how the moonlights could be growing algae, to be honest, I would think the wattage would be far to low to grow anything. I run moonlights on my display tanks, and even running a 4 ft 28 led the lamp produces so little light that I would be hard pressed to immagine it gowing anything. Now, what I suspect is that the algae bloom and the lamp were nothing more than an unhappy coincidence. Try the lamp again if you like the effect, if not, then no loss. As for the light bothering fish, if the lamp is in the true blue spectrum of most commercial lamps now, the claim is that the fish can't see the bandwidth that these lights create. In effect, to the fish the tank is dark. I don't know if I buy this one either. I know my fish exhibit behavior which appears to me anyway like they can see just fine. I have tried 4 different brands of moonlight, all supposedly in the "true moonlight" range, with the same results. Do my fish seem bothered? Not really, they act as if they are happy, and all seem like they are getting the rest they need. The upside that will be apparent right away is that the nocturnal species will be easily observed and actually seem to perform better with the trace lights.
Angels seem to like swords and broad leafed sword like plants. They will use the leaf structure as a spawning location if allowed to. Angels do like a small ammount of current, but it should be a very small ammount. Basically you want to rustle the leaves, not blow them flat, hehe.
As for stocking, 1 per 10 gallons is a good general rule of thumb. That would allow you 5 in a 55, with a 6th by stretching it a tad. This allows for some smaller dither fish to help keep the angels from focussing to clearly on each other. If allowed to focus on each other with nothing to distract them, you will find that the more agressive males in your tank will wind up with mouth damage from the lip locking they use to establish territory and dominance.
If I have missed anything, please jump in here Obed.

[szidlon]

Re: Angelfish

Now, what I suspect is that the algae bloom and the lamp were nothing more than an unhappy coincidence.

Well, that figures!  I seem to be pretty good at growing algae  

I might move them to my Discus tank.  I'd never heard that either, that is about the moonlights and how it does or does not affect fish.  To be honest, I never stayed up to see if the fish went into their "sleep mode".  You've actually started a series of questions for the plant novice so I think I'll post a question or two in the Plants forum.

[jbicb3]

Re: Angelfish

Thanks Scott. The moonlights will be mostly for nocturnal viewing by me.    The main lights were the ones I was really conserned about bothering the Angels. I know they come from muddy rivers, so I would think they don't NEED as much light as all the plants will require. I guess I can build in a few hiding shelves if they want to hide from all the light.

What about tank mates? Anyone know if they'll eat shrimp or not? I figure I can have a couple of loaches roaming around the bottom without being a problem. What about a Blue Ram? Would they get along?

[Obed]

Re: Angelfish

I figure Scott about nailed it. I do have one question, is the algae green or brown?

[szidlon]

Re: Angelfish

Obed, if you're referring to my algae bloom, it was green.

[Mzungu]

Re: Angelfish

About the lighting and the angels--like Scott said, swords are always a great idea, especially with angels and with a tank that's large (ie. 55 gallon). If you get a few of those, they'll provide a lot of shade and such for the fish. Just an idea....

[Ellen]

Re: Angelfish

My angels ate the shrimp that were in the tank as soon as they got big enough. Maybe the shrimp would have faired better in a heavily planted tank, but I still don't think I would have seen them; they hid from the angels in the plastic plants during the day. My fish have not bothered the black neons in the tank, though some say they will eat them when they get large enough. They also terrorized the mystery snails I had in the tank with them.

HTH,
Ellen

[jbicb3]

Re: Angelfish

I'm supposed to have 2 large Algae Shrimp in my 75, but haven't seen them in a while. I don't think anything in there is big enough to eat them, so I'm guessing they just hide all the time when I'm watching the fish.
I see plenty of the ghost shrimp all the time, and they're a lot smaller than the other shrimp.
I'd like to get some colorful shrimp in there, but not if they'll end up as a snack for a hungery fish.

Jerry

[Obed]

Re: Angelfish

Jerry, while it not always true, typically green algae means it is a light issue and brown means it is an imbalance of nutrition (over feeding). I see that you have 4 ea 40 watt bulbs, that is 160 watts on a 55 gallon tank, roughly 3 watts per gallon, which is fine for a lot of plants, but I would try cutting down on the hours, plants do not need 12 hours of light. I would cut down to 10 hours and see if that helps, if not go down to 8 hours, that should still be plenty of light for the plants. I use timers on my 12 planted tanks and have them on for a couple of hours in the morning, when I sit an drink coffee and talk with my wife while we watch the tanks, and then turm the lights off during the day when neither of us are in the rooms with the planted tanks, later in the day when we are both back home, the timers turn the lights on again and this time we drink beer and talk and watch the tanks.

[Smokin_Cache]

Re: Angelfish

12 Planted tanks!!!! How do you have time to eat? Better yet afford to eat. Do you have guided tours available?

[PhishPhreek]

Re: Angelfish

Rather than make a list of fish that you can put in an angel tank, it might be easier to make a list of fish that you should not put in an angel tank.

The top of my list would be chinese algie eaters.

[jbicb3]

Re: Angelfish

Obed, I haven't had a problem with Algae yet. My 55 isn't set up yet, and my 75 has so many plants, the algae doesn't have anything left to live off I think. The lights on the 75 (6 @ 40 watts = 240 = 3.2wpg) are on a timer, and run from 10am-10pm. Maybe I should reprogram it so it's off in the middle of the day. My wife's home all the time, but she doesn't stare into the tank as much as I do I think.

Jerry

[SCOTT]

Re: Angelfish

Actually, on my planted tanks the timer runs from 6am to 9pm, so I am getting even more light than that. The only algae problem I have in my planted tanks is that I don't really get enough to keep the grazers happy. On the non planted tanks thats another story, but in those I have more grazers to handle the excess.