The Great Hybrid (Flowerhorn) Debate

[jeebus]

Introducing any new plant/creature into a new environment is dangerous and irresponsible - I'm not arguing that.

[jisatsuguy]

how many foods do we eat that are a result of some type of unnatural occurance? i mean, jumbo eggs, cows that produce more milk, hmmm kobe beef?

[eklikewhoa]

As you stated Jeebus, The FH are being released and are thriving.

Now with that happening what and how does that effect the organisms arlready there or are now being replaced by the FH? How much further does it go before someone says it's enough? Animals tend to migrate, humans help that a great deal so if it's ok to happen in the Orients who's to say it won't happen everywhere?

I think this is the point of Charle's thread... to conserve what we have now since the introduction of Hybrids also come with a lot of careless actions.

[jeebus]

As you stated Jeebus, The FH are being released and are thriving.

Now with that happening what and how does that effect the organisms arlready there or are now being replaced by the FH? How much further does it go before someone says it's enough? Animals tend to migrate, humans help that a great deal so if it's ok to happen in the Orients who's to say it won't happen everywhere?

I think this is the point of Charle's thread... to conserve what we have now since the introduction of Hybrids also come with a lot of careless actions.

To which I agree:

Introducing any new plant/creature into a new environment is dangerous and irresponsible - I'm not arguing that.

I guess I'm just unable to determine if he takes issue with cross-breeding, or the collateral damage it may cause. Or both?

[Kiovo]

with or without hybrids, people are already dumping fish into lakes and rivers where they did not originate from. If someone releases a hybrid fish into the wild that fish will cause the same havoc as someone releasing a non native "natural" fish to the area.

[eklikewhoa]

True that either fish will cause problems in an un natural environment but I guess you could say it's like the whole pitbull debate.

To me I see it like releasing a pitbull into a community to run wild.... now who wants to see that?

[marauder_77868]

Well...I kind of take issue with both. I think that intentional cross breeding between species is irresponsible and many of those same people tend to be irresponsible with the culls. I think that man-made hybrids tend to thwart conservation for the reasons I gave in my very first post. I can't seem to get the point across though about one thing. You keep mentioning dogs. It's not comparable. The different dog breeds are not hybrids. Dog breeds are the result of line breeding within one species. Those two things are very different. It's like saying that the process to make veil angels is the same as that for making Flowerhorns. It's just not the case.

[eklikewhoa]

So it would be like man mating with monkeys to create a hybrid...

[marauder_77868]

I wasn't going to go there...

[jeebus]

You should, if it will sell your point.

[Kiovo]

So your problem is with all hybrids, not just flowerhorns correct?

[marauder_77868]

Yes...I think intentional man-made hybridization where fish (especially cichlids) are concerned is not only unnecessary, but also counterproductive to conservation and really the hobby in general.

[jeebus]

Yes...I think intentional man-made hybridization where fish (especially cichlids) are concerned is not only unnecessary, but also counterproductive to the hobby in general.

Well, at least we all know where you stand. I'm curious though, as president of HAS, if it creates a conflict of interest when interacting with HAS members that have hybrid fish?

[eklikewhoa]

Well, at least we all know where you stand. I'm curious though, as president of HAS, if it creates a conflict of interest when interacting with HAS members that have hybrid fish?

I think it has nothing to with with one's associations since it's respect for another's personal preferrence. Being part of any club would not matter IMO.

[Kiovo]

I think it adds a different aspect to the hobby. Yes there are many "natural" fish to choose from to keep but there are also many irresponsible fish keepers who keep these natural fish. Just like they're irresponsible people who keep hybrids. Fish keeping is a hobby and each person gets to choose what fish they want to keep. It's suppose to be fun and relaxing and just because you don't agree with the choices doesn't mean its counterproductive to the hobby. As far as conservation goes, if we really wanted to conserve and protect the natural fishes, then we should keep them in their natural environment. I'm keeping a fish that wasn't taken from it's natural habitat, all it's known is a tank. I can't help there are people over in the East who are dumping unwanted hybrids into rivers and streams. But again there are people here in Texas that are dumping non native fish into our waters.