UPDATED !! New Shrimp Tanks - Lighting Question....

[kidslikefish]

This is going to be a long post, sorry about that ……

I am going to start a new project and want to get some input.

I am going to start a CRS (Grade A and S) tank and upgrade my RCS tank at the same time. Two tanks, they will sit on a built-in entertainment center on either side of my big screen TV. (I'll get a picture posted of the entertainment center and the openings as soon as I can. I'll post pics of the tanks when they are ready in January and throughout the setup process). I talked to Kevin at All About Fish, and he is building me two matching acrylic tanks.  Dimensions will be 19.5 X 16 X 16 (1/2 inch Acrylic).  My opening is 20 inches, so the tanks will slide right in when ready, the shelves of the entertainment center are adjustable so height can be adjusted to fit the tanks/lights. The total depth of the cabinet is 21, so I'll have room to hang a filter on the back of the tanks.  The tanks come out to about 21.6 gallons if I did my measurements correctly, but I don't want lids, so they will hold in the neighborhood of 20 gallons. Tanks will be ready in Mid-January, Santa's little present to me !!

Here's what I know: My tank size, and I will use Aquasoil. Also want nice looking driftwood, some rocks and a few plants ( I want to be able to see the shrimp, but want nice cover also).

That's where each of you come in.  Any/all input/suggestions on the following issues would be appreciated. And anything else you can think of ?

A): Lighting: Kevin's going to give me a quote on a couple of custom light fixtures since my size won't allow me to use a "boxed" light kit.  Plus being totally enclosed in the entertainment center, I'm a little worried about heat from compaq lights.  Suggestions on lighting ??  I'm thinking in the area of 65 wts, Kevin's talking about a fixture built to hold 2, 18 inch bulbs with a cooling fan. Be able to mount it on the back of the entertainment center with an adjustable arm.  Anyone know of any pre-fab lights that would work ??

B): Filters:  I currently have two Aquaclear 20's. I was planning to just use those. I'll hide the intake with the driftwood, plus being in the back of the cabinet, I don't think the intake will be that noticeable ( I don't have room for canisters, so I think the "Over the Back" filters are my only option).  So, is that enough filtration for those tanks ? Any suggestions on filtration ?

C): Plants:  I want Marsilea Minuta in the foreground and some moss on the driftwood.  What other suggestions on plants ?  Is there any certain plan that shrimp like better than others ?  

D): Anything else I need to think about ??  I've read about everything I can find on Plantinverts, Shrimpfanatics and Petshrimp, but I'm sure there is still a lot more I'm not thinking about right now.

Goal will be to have the shrimp in the tanks around Early March.

[Brownsnoutuk]

Re: Starting the Planning Process for New Tanks

What type of entertainment center do you have?

Youd be adding about 400 pounds to it.

[PlanB]

Re: Starting the Planning Process for New Tanks

A long post deserves a long response.

If you're worried about heat from the lights, I'd suggest going with some kind of T5 setup since they run cooler with lower wattage. Plus they can come in really slim packages.

The aquaclears should be plenty, but I use a Zoo Meds 501 Miniature canister Turtle Filter. It has a slim profile and would take up about the same space as an HOB in the back if you want to have the ability to adjust the location of the intake and outflow, in this case a spraybar. Make sure not to obstruct the outflow with the driftwood to make sure you get good circulation throughout the planted tank. Or you can supplement with a powerhead, but I wouldn't if you didn't have to simply due to it taking up that much more space in your tank.





I wouldn't go crazy on plants, especially ground cover because the contrast of the shrimp on dark substrate is the appeal of these particular colors. Just enough to make them comfortable and give them a place to hide when they're moulting. I've read that crypts and anubias are poisonous to shrimp due to the release of oxacatl acid or something like that, but have also read that discounted. After doing my own testing starting with ghost shrimp, than cherry's and amanos than my filter shrimp and now low grade CRSs, I think that may have just been an unfounded internet rumor. I would just do whatever looks good to you, but give yourself permission to change it up when you feel like it.

As for any other info or suggestions... nacra99 told me that they love the big oak leaves. I've been feeding them to my cherries but will now start giving to my CRSs as well. Oh, and foam hair curlers on the filter intakes! It'll colonize beneficial bacteria and spare your shrimp babies. There's a lot of much more experienced shrimp keepers here and I'm sure they got some good info. I'm by no means an expert and am still learning myself, but I'll be happy to share any successes or screw-ups.

Good luck, can't to see this!

[PlanB]

Re: Starting the Planning Process for New Tanks

Brownsnoutuk makes a good point. See if you have paperwork with the manufacturer's weight rating or test it yourself by gradually adding weights to 200 lbs+. If the shelves start to bow, than pull out!

[eklikewhoa]

Re: Starting the Planning Process for New Tanks

T5 is probably gonna be your best bet for lighting....you can go further into cooling with computer fans and even further by incorporating temp controllers to turn them on and off according to water temp.

Filtration in that size tank I would shoot more towards the Eheim classic 2213, a 20g is a bit big for the zoomed or even the AC20 IMO. Also if the shrimp get sucked up they will live at the bottom of the canister and you can dump them back in when it comes time for cleaning.

With the entertainment center you might wanna look into reinforcing it some just in case.

For more reading look into Aquaticplantcentral.com and plantedtank.net, there are shrimp sections there.

As for plants I think lots of moss is nice....it will collect detritus for the shrimp to feed on as well as microorganism to feed the shrimplets.

[PlanB]

Re: Starting the Planning Process for New Tanks

A 2213 would be nice but kidslikefish didn't think he'd have room for a canister behind the tank, even though it's a small one. I still think the ZooMeds would work since it's slimmer and could squeeze behind it. I have a 20 gallon tank on it and it looks and stays healthy. I'm crazy about water-testing on my CRS tank. Or if you wanted to go with the 2213 and it won't fit behind the tank, maybe you could put it on a lower shelf and conceal it with books or something.

[eklikewhoa]

Re: Starting the Planning Process for New Tanks

It's a canister.....it doesn't need to be behind the tank.

Drill two small holes behind the tank( that's gonna be like 10x smaller then the zoomed) then run the hoses down to the lower cabinets if there are any, close the door and voila!

[Mzungu]

Re: Starting the Planning Process for New Tanks

Was there a concern with just using the AquaClears? I think with the hair curler idea, you should be fine?

Also, T5HOs are a great option, but it might be a bit difficult to find any that are 18" to 20" long, at least any that aren't actinic or 50/50 only. However, it's the holidays, so maybe some companies will be coming out with smaller planted T5HO tubes! Who knows...

This sounds like fun, keep us updated on your progress! And, if you want, feel free to explain this custom light fixture a bit more. I'm not quite sure I'm picturing it in my head correctly.  :)  But sounds promising!

[PlanB]

Re: Starting the Planning Process for New Tanks

I think the aquaclears would be fine unless he wanted the option to position the intake and outflow.

Kidslikefish, I was also wondering what you were going to do about water changes. Will the tanks be on a heavy-duty slide-out tray or were you planning on installing bulkheads into the them?

[kidslikefish]

Re: Starting the Planning Process for New Tanks

I don't think that the weight of the tanks will be an issue.  This entertainment center is custom built with solid oak, no plywood or particle board anywhere on it. Plus, the tanks will be about 6 foot apart.  I need to get a picture posted of it so you can see what I am working with.  I'll get that done by at least next week.  I have stood on the bottom shelf (where the tanks will be) to place some items on top the entertainment center and it didn't give at all.  Just to be safe, I can test it with a level and some weights.

Due to limited space below where the tanks sit, I really don't think canister filters are an option. There will be closed cabinets below, but they are full of DVD players/surround sound components.  I'm not too concerned with the positioning of the intakes/outflows of the Aquaclears as I can place some rock/wood to hide them without impacting their functionality. I may start with those and if I don't think they are moving enough water I can change.  I plan to run the tanks for a month or so before buying the CRS, I'll probably place some RCS in one earlier as I have plenty of those right now.

For water changes/cleaning, the shelves above the tanks are adjustable and glass, so they can be removed to give me better access to get siphons in and add water into the tanks.

I am suppose to get a drawing of what Kevin thinks he can make for me. My biggest concern is watts and heat.  T5 maybe the best option if I can find a small option.  I also have a Electrical Engineer friend who says he can make something, but then I'm very worried that he makes gumbo out of my shrimp one night.   I'll keep digging on the lights, if anyone runs across a weblink they thing I need to see, send it to me.  The entire length of the fixture can't be more than 21 1/2.  The tanks are limited to 19 1/2 due to trim on the cabinet, but once past that, I have two more inches.

I'll have to make a circut of the LFS's after the 1st of the year looking for driftwood and rocks.

[jughead]

Re: Starting the Planning Process for New Tanks

i have never had electronics close to tanks,dont know if it will be an issue,but it might.

[kidslikefish]

Re: Starting the Planning Process for New Tanks

My tanks will be ready in a couple of weeks, but I still haven't found lighting.  The 21 1/2 inch max length for a light fxture is limiting what I can do.  

I found this one, but it's more designed for salt-water.   Any thoughts on this ?  Anyone have any history with this light fixture ??   Do you think it would work for the shrimp tanks that I am putting together ?

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+13637&pcatid=13637

(can't get a link to paste, maybe copy and paste will work to look at the light ?)

It comes in a 20 inch model with duel 40wt bulbs.   I could hang it from the glass shelf above the tanks and replace the Dual Actinic 420 nanometer and 460 nanometer bulb with another Dual Daylight 6,700°K/10,000°K bulb.

[Mzungu]

Re: UPDATED !! New Shrimp Tanks - Lighting Question....

That would work, although are you going to be injecting CO2? 80W per 20x16x16 tank is a lot of light to have without CO2 and ferts. Just curious.

How much room do you have above the tanks? If you have a couple inches, I'd recommend ordering some legs for that fixture (I have a few of the single ones, and they usually come with the legs, but on your link it says to order them separately).

But, these are great light fixtures. Any reason you chose this one in particular?

[PlanB]

Re: UPDATED !! New Shrimp Tanks - Lighting Question....

Coralife makes a 20" that would really blast that tank with light.

http://store.seacorals.net/20co6aq96wqu.html

No lunar lights, but you wouldn't have to replace any bulbs. All my planted tanks have a Coralife of some sort.

[kidslikefish]

Re: UPDATED !! New Shrimp Tanks - Lighting Question....

Mzungu, I picked that light because it's one of the few I've found that would fit my 21 1/2 max length limit.  They make a single 40wt fixture, but didn't think that would be enough light.    I found the Coralife, but thought 96wt was way, way too much.  The shelves above the tanks are adjustable, so legs may be the best way to go.  I'll probably get legs and then can make the final decision on that once I start the setup.

I have not ordered the light yet, but am leaning that direction unless I someone comes up with a better idea in the next week or so !

I am not planning on injecting CO2, but will be dosing with Excel and Flourish (just don't have space to store what it would take to inject CO2 into the two tanks).

I need to get a picture of my cabinet and where the tanks will be out here so you can see it and know more on my limitations, I'll try to get that in the next day or so.