Black Lyretail Sailfin Mollies

[Spot86t]

Re: Black Lyretail Sailfin Mollies

On my black lt pair, both look to be made of the softest velvet but the male has a silver iris and black pupil.  The female on the other hand has eyes so black and velvety you cant even tell she has eyes at all!

She looks on the chubby side, and has since I got her.  Never has produced young.  The male doesnt' look so chubby but not as streamlined as my other male sailfins.

[roberte]

Re: Black Lyretail Sailfin Mollies

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[islander]

Re: Black Lyretail Sailfin Mollies

Howdy Rorberte, Greg & All,

Yes, Charles is a good breeder and can keep his lines pure.  The petenensis he has think did well at the ALA shows the last couple of years.  So you are the sourse...Coooool!

Charles talked putting a nezzie sword male with some of his hifin females to try and improve the hifins.  Don't think he got any yet but he gave me a male to try with my hifin lyretails.  I have some offspring and will breed these back to the hifins; still to early to tell but the fish are wider bodied.  Hoping the hybrid vigor stays with them.  

Charles is also working with blue mollies but they are different then ours.  I have a photo some where of a female that has blue in body I am talking about.  Will try and find photo and post it.  I believe these are out of a black P. sphenops.  Something fun to work on.

The red picta are on my wish list for the next time I see Charles & Susan.  Later, ken/mark

[goliadfish]

Re: Black Lyretail Sailfin Mollies

Okay. I should have allowed this thread to die. But, here goes...

Goliad Farms Black Lyretail Sailfins originated from commercial black lyretail stock. The lyretail gene arose in a "sphenops" type molly. Unfortunately, sphenops are short-finned mollies. They also have narrow caudal peduncles. The perma-black characteristic also was developed in short-finned molly stock. Perma-black fry begin life solid black. They have black irises.

We wanted to develop Black Lyretails with sailfins. We had Poecilia latipinna (the native sailfin molly) from two collection sites. We outcrossed the commercial mollies with both of these sailfins. After a few generations of back-crossing and selection, we got good sailfin lyretails. This strain will still throw some non-lyretails (some of the fish carry the recessive normal tail characteristic). The males of the strain will always be sailfins. Some fish will have silver eyes, other black eyes. This is partly because I can be schizophrenic about selection. Sometimes I favor silver eyes, other times black. So both characteristics remain in the population. This strain will also produce an occasional green and the more than occasional marble; although most of the marbles become solid black by 6-8 months. The fry, because these are not perma-blacks, start out green to mottled to black and become more black with age.

[roberte]

Re: Black Lyretail Sailfin Mollies

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[Philbert]

Re: Black Lyretail Sailfin Mollies

Thanks to all who have fed my insatiable appetite for any knowledge on Sailfins, Black Lyretails in particular!
I have little money, almost no history of keeping serious aquariums, and much more ignorance than knowledge...but I got a Sailfin Jones!
And a serious case of Goliad FF hero worship.
Without exception, I have not seen finer Sailfins than the beautiful lines from Goliad Fish Farms.
I am at a loss to understand the tiny fry I seem to have raised fron 2 large Black Lyretail Sailfins I got at the FRII HLA auction quite a while back (I was able to meet Charles there, and have a few minutes of conversation); at 4+ months they are gorgeous but around 2" max, most are smaller.
I have raised them in a 42 hex, then a 55, and then in a 75. Food is not an issue, so I assume genetics is the size determinent here. I am confused by the 3" size of the parents, and the tiny fry they produced.

[roberte]

Re: Black Lyretail Sailfin Mollies

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[Philbert]

Re: Black Lyretail Sailfin Mollies

I do want to hear that...believe me. I am not an ego freek, I am a Sailfin admirer.
I don't raise my Sailfins in small tanks, I progress them.
New born in a 10, safety and tranquility.
After a few weeks or so, they go to a 42 for more growth and no large fish to compete with. After they are  2 months or so, larger ones (much fewer number) are put in a 29 to give the early males a chance to show up.
I put early males in the males-only tank; before, it was a 55; and now a 75.
I give away most of my juveniles, male and female/undeveloped at 2-3 months old, keeping the largest and most interesting to grow out.
Females live in a 55, and I feed all a good flake, with freeze dried bloodworms; they eat the wafers I drop for my Pleco population as well.
I have felt the Black Lyretails were slower developing than my Platinum, Marbled, etc, as the non-Blacks are pretty much from 3 fish I started with.
My Green Lyretails are mostly from Islander's stock, most are average with 2 males who turned out much larger and developed much later.
I recently lost my most outstanding male, right at 3 " at 11 months old.
He "turned" male at 5 1/2 months, so I am acutely aware how different development is among strains and genetic backgrounds.
Everything I learn will be applied to future projects, I realize that any breeding project takes years and is up to Nature and Lady Luck.
I mostly enjoy the happy finned residents in my tanks, and do what I can to create the fish I would like to have swimming around in my tanks.
Thanks for all the education you have given me, and please feel free to share whenever you feel the urge.

[roberte]

Re: Black Lyretail Sailfin Mollies

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[goliadfish]

Re: Black Lyretail Sailfin Mollies

Hi, Bobby. I'm looking forward to having you back in Texas.

The Convention seems to have gone well. I'm working up a report on it now.

On the issue of size in mollies:

Water quality is probably the most important issue. Mollies tolerate no ammonia. Space isn't critical. For example, we keep up to 600 juvenile mollies in 45 gallons of water and up to 300 adults in the same space. But, the water is recirculated twice an hour through our plant filters where red mangrove trees scrub all the ammonia. Despite our system being exposed to full sunlight in a greenhouse, our water is crystal clear. Single cell algae cannot survive because the system has no ammonia, nitrates, or nitrites to feed the algae.

Temperature? Our systems during the winter have daily temperature ranges from about 70F in the morning to 80F in the late afternoon. During the summer the range is from 78F in the morning to 88F in the late afternoon. Temperature affects grow rate but not their ultimate size.

Food? Well, we raise lots of live foods, the primary one being Moina macropoda, a miniature Daphnia. But, we don't feed any live foods to our mollies. We feed three foods to our mollies. We buy 50 pound bags of mixed flakes from Zeigler (equivalent to Tetramin flakes) and 50 pound bags of Aquamax (Purina's food for predatory fish destined to be eaten by humans). Aquamax foods are designed as a complete diet for predatory fish. First thing in the morning we feed our mollies Aquamax 500, a 42% protein floating pellet. The fish are fed enough pellets to last about an hour or two. The mollies cluster around the pellets and nibble at them until they are gone. Just before lunch they are fed Aquamax 100, 200, or 300 (the numbers refer to the size of the crumbles) depending on the size of the fish. These three foods are 50% protein and sink slowly through the water column. All the Aquamax foods are oily, which attracts the fish and provide critical fats and fatty acids for them. In the early afternoon we feed Zeigler flakes. About an hour before dark the mollies are fed Aquamax 100, 200, or 300. As you can see, we feed very heavily.

So, I agree with Bobby on water changes or a filtration system that maintains water quality so high that large water changes don't have to be made. I don't agree that live foods are absolutely necessary, but they don't hurt! Both of us raise large mollies in very different ways, but both of us do the two things necessary to get them big: we both maintain high water quality and we both feed heavily.

[roberte]

Re: Black Lyretail Sailfin Mollies

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[fshfrk]

Re: Black Lyretail Sailfin Mollies

I was in Houston until a couple of years ago. I was in  and around the hobby there since the 60's as a kid. Right now my space doesn't let me set back up the tanks. In Houston I had around 25 tanks of livebearers and killies mostly, plus a few wild bettas and west african dwarf cichlids. Charles' velifera and petenensis came from me as well as the red picta and nezzie swords. I gave him my breeders when I moved as I knew he could keep the lines going. Its sort of funny that all this interest in livebearers started in Houston after I left. I was a lone wolf back then. I may be at the ALA convention. I certainly want to come. I don't know anything about breeding blue onto black mollies. I'm not even sure what that is. Good luck on the veiltails. As I said I crossed them with wild latipinna I collected around Houston but never got anything worth working with. The fins did not really improve and they were always so weak. I didn't have the chance to cross them with the velifera or petenensis as the size (velifera) and strength (petenensis) might have worked wonders. Both are infinitely better sailfin species to use for making crosses than is latipinna. Its why velifera based sailfin strains have all but replaced latipinna based sailfins commercially. I had the old strains of veil mollies years ago and setting aside issues of fertility they were the most spectacular fancy livebearers I have ever seen. It was like having a giant show quality delta tail male guppy swimming in your tank -- only it was a molly and the females were even more impressive than the males. I be sure to give the veils a diet high in protein and filled with live foods if you hope to produce something worthwhile.

I was in  and around the hobby there since the 60's as a kid.

Now you're only 23, but were in Houston in the 60's?

Sounds like you have a credibility problem....

[roberte]

Re: Black Lyretail Sailfin Mollies

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