Whoah, I think I found my problem

[Ramius]

Ok, I have a 135 gallon tank with plants in it that are doing... not good.

I believe I've found the problem:

1. Me
2. Poor lighting (1 40watt Powerglo bulb)
3. Sand

Sooooo... while the bulb would light the tank up and all, apparently it seems that it's just not good enough for the plants, my first step is to see what I can do about increasing the lighting system.

My next step is to see about fixing the bottom.. this is going to be a major issue for me I'm afraid... heres a picture of my tank.



It's not perfectly updated  but you can get an idea of what I'm working with here.

As you can see there is sand all across the bottom, and on the right side there is some small rock. Later this week I will be getting a couple new pieces of decoration and it will allow me to get rid of those pot things my wife stuck in there.. I'm thinking I should take this time to consider the bottom of my tank as well.

Now, I really would like to keep the sand in there because my dragonfish absolutly loves it, in fact, he's  the one responsible of all of the unevenness, he's constantly waddling around on the bottom and marking off spots. However, for the areas where the plants will be I realize sand is not the best idea for root growth..

Should I look into laying some more small gravel on top of the existing sand for the planted area (back of the tank btw) or should I try to move that part of the sand out of the way and have the gravel exclusively there?

Bah, I know these are probably no-brainers but any input is appreciated.


BTW.. I don't know how old everyone is here, but I'm 25 and I never in my life thought I would be concerned about propor root stimulation for a plant, Those courderoy pants are getting closer and closer =(

[eklikewhoa]

Re: Whoah, I think I found my problem

your gonna need some good lighting for 135gal either that or go with plants that dont require high light.

im a newb at the planting thing as well but after some serious reading and net surfing i have been able to keep mine alive and well.

so here goes my opinion and take it with a grain of salt.

the sand will work fine as that is what im using as well but what i do is stick root tabs in the substrate for plants that feed from the roots and what i use is seachem flourish tabs. so far that has been working great but i also dose fertilizers in my tank and again i use seachem's line of ferts. also in my opinion gravel is no different then sand when it comes to plants living.

a problem you might have is your dragonfish as he might uproot the plants or dig up the root tabs which will cause the ferts in the tab to be released into the water leaving nutrients for algae to flourish.

i started off wanting a low maintenance/low light planted tank but it quickly evolved after seeing lots of AGA competition pictures with all the pretty but high light plants. so shortly after setting it up i went and got a high watt compact flourescent light fixture for my 20g i went with a 96w fixture giving me 4.8 watts per gallon. after upgrading my lighting the plants still didnt do so well and i found that with increase lighting there comes deprivation of nutrients and co2.
so next i setup a simple diy co2 system using yeast, sugar and water along with seachem's line of ferts which by the way is starting to get expensive compared to what's available with dry ferts.

with the diy co2 its cheap and all but starting to become a real hassle in inconsistant so i think the next step is to go with pressurized co2 which will cost more money.

though this little tank of mine has become somewhat expensive i am really satisfied and pleased with how it has turned out and i have yet bought or recieved a plant that didnt grow in it.

here's a link to my thread which is just below yours.

http://houstonfishbox.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=664

[Ramius]

Re: Whoah, I think I found my problem

oh man, That tank looks great!!

You know, having black sand in there looks 100x's better than normal playground sand, it really makes the plants stand apart.

It looks like this is getting ready to become a major undergoing for me, I have some sort of tabs that I put in to help fertilize the plants, I can't remember the brand but they looked like little black pyramids and I was supposed to put them about six inches apart from each other.
[/list]

[Ramius]

Re: Whoah, I think I found my problem

Oh yeah, and about the dragon fish

He has adopted the far left rock as his home, in fact, he's turned it into a cave (I'll take pictures later) and he stays mainly on that side of the tank.

I had a couple of plants back there but like you said, he kept rooting around them kicking dirt up everywhere until I finally moved the plants back over to the right side.

My Pleco mainly hangs out on the right side of the tank in the 'bushes' and even though I don't see them fighting or anything, I noticed that those two fish don't get very close to each other ever.. so as long as I keep the plants mainly in that area I think (hope) they should be ok from his prowlings.

On a funny side note, I put a few ghost shrimp in there from time to time as a treat... and this latest batch stays around two of the plants on the far right side of the tank behind the 'stump'... I think they know whats waiting for them on the other side of the tank.

Even though they are a treat for the dragon fish I like to look at those ghost shrimp swim, it's funny to watch their little legs kicking around.

[Mzungu]

Re: Whoah, I think I found my problem

Well, I think eklikewhoa covered everything for you about the plants! But, just for the sake of having another opinion, I agree. I think the sand will be fine for plants. and if the dragon fish stays on the left side, then it seems you might eventually be able to have a really well planted right side! How long have you had him?

And yes, unfortunately, if you want to grow anything you'll have to get quite a bit more lighting. Even 2 watts-per-gallon is considered "low-light." But, luckily, you can probably find some fixtures here on the site or around town that are used, if you don't want to go all high tech and expensive. What are some of the plants that you have tried?

[eklikewhoa]

Re: Whoah, I think I found my problem

i agree with mzungu, if he stays on the left then plant on the right.

if you plant mainly on the right you could get by with just a smaller light fixture over the right side of the tank where the plants will be. the pyramids i think are seachem flourish tabs and thats what i use but i put them a bit closer than 6".

[Ramius]

Re: Whoah, I think I found my problem

ooh I've been busy today, pics and updates when I get to work tonight!

I've had 'old dragon fish' for almost two months, and added another one in about two weeks ago btw =)

But lots more info coming soon, just a few last minute things to do before I have to leave for work.

[Ramius]

Re: Whoah, I think I found my problem

Ok, about to upload some pictures. The quality wasn't as great as I wanted because I was very pressed for time, but heres a starter pic to show the end result.



I started out by increasing the lighting from 40 watts to 160 watts, and going from 1 18,000k bulb to 4 6,700k bulbs.

I went the 'cheap' route by buying two ballasts from wal mart for 8 bucks a piece and the bulbs were $4.50 a piece.

I placed the ballasts on the right half of the tank for two reasons, one I know my goby doesn't really like light, and he hangs out on the left side of the tank so he has some shade over there, and secondly, within the next day or two all my plants will be on the right side of the tank so thats where the light will need to be concentrated anyways.

More pics coming, ohyeah and like I said, everything is just thrown up there now because I had just enough time to basically plug everything in, and 0 time to make it look good, that will come tomorrow =)

[eklikewhoa]

Re: Whoah, I think I found my problem

If it works it works.

[Ramius]

Re: Whoah, I think I found my problem

Now, I realize that 160 watts is still considered inadequate but until I can design/buy something better, that is a huge step in helping the process along, so next comes the homemade C02 tank..

For this I got a 3 liter bottle of Ozarka water, used the water to make some tea to take to work and poked a hole in the lid, jabbed some tubing down about 3 inches and sealed around with clear silicone sealant.

I filled the bottle up with cold water from my fridge dispensor, added in 1 1/2 cups of sugar shook the poo out of the bottle, and then addedthree spoon fulls of fleishmans yeast, again, shaking poo.

The tubing sticking out of the top of the bottle was about two feet long, I stuck a check valve on and ran another line into the tank with a small air stone on the end and placed this air stone about 4 inches below the surface of the water (I don't know if this will generate enough pressure to create bubbles under 2 feet of water).

I did all this just after 9, and I leave my house at 10 to go to work, I didn't see any bubbles coming out of the air stone, but I saw them beginning to form on top of the water in the ozarka bottle which leads me to believe the vessel is pressurising.

Tomorrow if everything is working ok I'm going to either hide the bottle underneat the cabinet and run the line up the back, or I'm going to decorate the bottle and leave it out (I'm a trackhead so I may make it look like a NOS bottle).

Ok now for the pics of the tank/fish..

And as always, any suggestions/critiques/jokes at my expense always appreciated =)

One area I am looking for improvement is how to increase the wattage going into the water, I have a limited space to work with and those two ballasts take up all that room, can I buy a  higher wattege flourescant bulb, say 60-70 watt? I don't even know my options.

[Ramius]

Re: Whoah, I think I found my problem



This first pic displays the ratty state some of my plants are in, and gives you a quick view of a couple fish.

The grassy looking plants were sold as "mondo grass" and I forget what the chewed up plants were called, if I heard the name I would instantly remember it but can't think of it off hand.

[Ramius]

Re: Whoah, I think I found my problem

This next picture shows the infamous dragon fish, going into his 'lair'.



That rock was simply placed on top of the sand, he has terraformed the area until it has a complete tunnel system underneath where he can swim in the front of the cave opening and swim out the back door if needs be, he also began burying the rock too as you can see.

He also uprooted the plant in the back that used to be planted... and will be transferred to the other side of the tank in the morning.

Heres a picture of him in action, he's throwing sand out the front of his cave in what appears to be an effort to expand his living room (big screen tv add on?)



I can always tell when he's been busy because the tank looks kindof mooky, he starts wigging his body around and throwing sand everywhere until it's just a big dust cloud like the tasmanian devil but hey.. it works for him.

[Ramius]

Re: Whoah, I think I found my problem

This picture shows one of the rainbow sharks that I've been having issues with, This is the dominate fish of the group I believe. After much contemplation I moved the pale rainbow shark to the isolaton tank and the next day I noticed that one of the other sharks was chasing the other one around the same way he would chase the isolated one.. and next thing you know the newly harassed fish is running around pale all of a sudden.

So I believe everyone was right in saying only keep one in a tank.. the dominate one will just harass the other ones until they are miserable. I'm probably going to pull the new pale fish in the morning and hope they don't harass each other in the 5 gal tank until I can decide what to do with them. I don't even know.



Ohyeah, a quick inventory of my plants for the person who asked is..

2 bamboo plants from Fannon (but I cut one in half so technically 3 I guess)

a few Mondo Grass things

The one in the pic with the dragon fish I got from walmart, and don't know the name of,

then the rest are the big leafy things and I just simply forgot the name of them, but it's a common plant (petsmart special) and I'll try and remember the name of it really soon.... I know that was about as helpfull as a sack of doorknobs I'm sorry :P

[Ramius]

Re: Whoah, I think I found my problem

Whos dat peepin' in my windooooow?



His head really isn't fuzzy looking, I think he was starting to move and it blurred the pic.



This is where "new dragonfish" has staked out his territory, you can see he dug up that whole area and the rock on the right has a similar cave system going on. He was on a Union break though and was unable to appear for the photo op, so he sent his buddy to pose instead.




Slightly out of focus pic of Pleco, Snail and Loach all hanging out under the stump (this is kinda like the local beer joint for the tank, everyone comes here to relax)

[Ramius]

Re: Whoah, I think I found my problem

oops, wrong pic, heres what shoulda been there instead of dragon fish again