Here we go...first 30gal planted tank

[tnguyen]

Purigen is a substance that can be put into your filter to take out discoloration and such in the water. I think tnguyen meant "tannins," which leech out of driftwood and turn the water a tan-color. The driftwood is most likely not causing the cloudiness. And if/when you do see tannins begin to color the water, they are harmless, and only need to be removed if you don't like the color.

Yup, thanks for the correction.

[Complexity]

Kevinly, don't do another thing until you get your water tested. Otherwise, you could end up doing the very opposite of what is best for your tank. I would not recommend adding any more fish to the tank until you are certain it's safe. The poor fish could be in extremely painful conditions if ammonia and/or nitrites are spiking. It's not fair to the fish.

There are a few areas that I think might help with a little clarification.

Water is still cloudy. I figured it's trying to cycle itself. I used a brand new filter with no bacteria so its taking its time to cycle.

A brand new tank with no bacteria being seeded will take about 6 weeks to cycle. It takes time for the bacteria to magically appear in the tank and then increase in sufficient numbers to create a complete cycle. Moreover, there are more than one bacteria that needs to find its way to the tank, and they won't both appear simultaneously.

First an uncycled tank will have ammonia. There is no bacteria in the tank to convert the ammonia into nitrites. So you just have ammonia, ammonia, and more ammonia.

During this time, the tank can be very deadly to fish so it's best to not have any fish in the tank whatsoever. However, if there is no ammonia source (which is needed to attract the nitrifying bacteria), then it must be added somehow. Because it's human nature to be excited about a new tank and want fish in it right away, people will frequently put fish in a new tank. The food and detritus from the fish will be converted to ammonia which will then begin the cycling process. If a fish is in the tank at this point, it is very important to frequently (1 to 2 times every day) test the water for ammonia levels. When the ammonia begins to increase, a water change is necessary to keep the levels low enough to remain safe for the fish. By adding ammonia in the form of fish food and the resulting fish's detritus coupled with frequent water changes, you maintain a moderate level of ammonia so that there's enough ammonia to attract nitrifying bacteria but not so much that it's harmful to fish. Daily water changes may be in necessary to maintain this moderate level of ammonia.

At some point, nitrifying bacteria will somehow magically appear in your tank. They will then convert the ammonia to nitrite. Nitrite is extremely deadly to fish. You will need to be vigilant with testing the water to keep the nitrite levels low enough to be safe for the fish. Understand that any nitrite is harmful to fish. But you cannot cycle a tank without having nitrite peak at some point so if a fish is in the tank, you have to do your best to keep the nitrites as low as possible for the fish's sake.

Now that nitrite is in the tank, a second nitrifying bacteria will be attracted to the tank. This second bacteria will do the final conversion of turning the nitrites into nitrate. Nitrate is harmful to fish at high levels, but can be safe at lower levels.

My experience with cycling a tank generally follows the pattern of nothing but ammonia for a long time. Then nitrite will begin to appear. In 1-2 days after appearing, the nitrites will skyrocket to a very high level. This is an incredibly dangerous time for fish. And it happens fast. In a matter of 24 hours, you can go from a tank that's safe to a tank that's deadly. Without testing the water, you will have no way of seeing this coming. You must test the water to detect when the nitrites spike.

After about 48 hours, nitrates will start to appear. You will see the ammonia and nitrites begin to drop to 0 as the nitrates increase. Once ammonia and nitrites are reading 0, then your tank has cycled. At this point, it's safe to put fish in the tank.

Okay, so what happens if you seed the tank with bacteria? This same process occurs but at a much faster rate. Rather than taking 6 weeks to cycle a tank, it can cycle in just a matter of days or even hours (depending on the amount of bacteria put in the tank and the ammonia created by fish or other sources). Even with a fully cycled tank, you need to be careful to not suddenly increase the ammonia in the tank (by adding a large number of fish all at once, accidentally dumping too much food in the tank) because you could end up with an imbalance of having too much ammonia for the current number of bacteria to handle. They will multiply to be able to handle the heavier ammonia load, but only after doing a "mini-cycle" similar to the original cycling in which there will be a period of high ammonia, then high nitrites, and then high nitrates.

There are 2 things that I know of that will cause a white cloudiness in the water that lasts for more than a day. (1) The tank is overly polluted with ammonia, nitrites, nitrates due to overloading, no water changes, basic neglect and (2) bacterial bloom.

A bacterial bloom occurs when there is a large amount of ammonia in the tank. The more ammonia, the more the bacteria will multiply. You can end up with a very large number of bacteria all at once because there is so much ammonia in the tank all at once – much more than what a normally cycled tank would have. This large number of bacteria in the tank can be so numerous that they can actually cause a white cloudy appearance.

Given your particular situation in which you know you have a very high level of ammonia in the tank, it is very possible that the white cloudiness is being caused by an excess of multiplying bacteria. This will continue until you get a full balance of bacteria that can do the 2-step cycling process of going from ammonia to nitrites to nitrates. When this is happening to a tank, it is again very critical that you test the water frequently if a fish is in the tank because the tank is cycling very rapidly. Spikes in ammonia and/or nitrites can occur very rapidly. This is not a good time to be putting fish in the tank.

I suspect the plants you put in the tank seeded the tank with bacteria. Because the substrate is releasing a very high level of ammonia, the seeded bacteria is multiplying at a very fast rate to the point of actually being visible in the form of a white cloudy appearance in the water. If this is the case, this not a good time to be adding fish. The water conditions are very unstable and changing very rapidly. Couple that with not testing the water to see what's really going on with the water conditions, and you could be putting a poor fish into a very deadly situation. Even if the fish does not die, you cannot know if the fish's gills are being burned by ammonia and/or nitrites. It's just not fair to the fish.

Sorry for the rambling, but I hope this helps in a little. Please get your water tested asap. It's very important.

However, I got a bottle of live bacteria and poured it in there, which should help.

Which live bacteria did you get? Most on the market are pure junk.

But understand that adding more bacteria to your tank may not be at all helpful. If the white cloudiness is due to a bacteria bloom, then adding even more bacteria will only add to the cloudy appearance. This is why it is so important to test the water so you will have some idea of what's going on inside the tank. The money spent on the bottle of bacteria may have been a complete waste.

Still I am afraid the tank won't clear up.

It will clear up. You just have to be a little more patient. I'd say it should take about 1 week from start to finish.

I have a molly in there to help cycle some more. The good thing is he made it through the night.

This increases the need to test the water asap. Adding the molly may require that you slow down the cycling process, not speed it up. Without fish in the water, you can afford more leeway with ammonia and nitrite levels. So if they spike, they can run their course without too much harm which means the bacteria can multiply like crazy. But now that a fish is in the tank, you will have to maintain safe levels of ammonia and nitrite. No spikes allowed! This may reduce the amount of bacteria that can multiply all at once because you will be limiting their food supply by maintaining lowered, safe levels of ammonia and nitrite for the molly. So having the molly in the tank may require that you slow the entire cycling process down to maintain safe levels of ammonia and nitrites for the molly. Please do not add any more fish.

I'm starting to think I might have not soaked the wood long enough, maybe causing the water to be cloudy.

As has already been mentioned, the wood is not the source of the cloudiness. Unsoaked wood would normally produce two results: (1) it will float and not sink and (2) it will release tannins into the water which is very harmless, but does turn the water a clear yellow color (not white, not cloudy). The only exception is if the wood was not cleaned and is polluting the water, but I'd only suspect that if you found some wood laying around your house somewhere and added it to the tank without cleaning it

The good thing is that it looks better then a few days ago.

Yes, it does. And if I'm right, I think it will continue to look better each day until it's cleared. I will take a stab and say you should have clear water by this weekend.

In the meantime, please test the water and make sure the water is kept safe for the molly.

[kwc1974]

+1 for testing. Unless you know what is wrong, you can not fix it.

Also, another factor not mentioned, this could be the precursor to a green water outbreak. Increased lighting will only amplify the problem. This has happened to be before with similar precursors.

[kevinly]

Okay first thing first, I will get my water tested ASAP. I really need to get me a kit to test nitrate, nitrite, and ammonia.

However, I tested the pH and to me seems like it dropped considerably to about 6.5. I'm thinking it was because I turned on the co2 too high.

Guys how much co2 should I have in the tank?

[kwc1974]

Amazonia will drop you pH, but so will too much CO2.

There are several methods to check how much CO2 to inject, I think that I had posted this some time back. My preferance is a drop checker. I do not like the pH check and chart method it can be thrown off by thing affecting you pH (Amazonia) But not by much.

[Complexity]

Okay first thing first, I will get my water tested ASAP. I really need to get me a kit to test nitrate, nitrite, and ammonia.

There's still plenty of hours left to buy one tonight! There is no such thing as too soon.

However, I tested the pH and to me seems like it dropped considerably to about 6.5. I'm thinking it was because I turned on the co2 too high.

Guys how much co2 should I have in the tank?

In very general terms, dropping one full pH point equals around 30ppm CO2. However, you first need to get a baseline reading on your pH which may be difficult as your tank is going through so many changes.

Unless you're battling BBA, don't worry about getting the CO2 very high. You will be able to tweak that a later. I agree that a drop checker is the easiest way to keep an eye on the CO2 levels.

Keep in mind this is all completely separate from the issue of the tank cycling and the need to test the water for ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. Two completely different subjects. Now that the tank has a fish in it, the focus need to be on the water parameters.

[Mzungu]

What did you set the CO2 at initially? I would turn it down if you think it might be high, especially if the molly seems to be suffering from it. Too much CO2 = bad for fishes.

[kevinly]

So I just tested the ammonia in the water and its an astonishing 8.0ppm. :o
What to do next? Waterchanges?

[Complexity]

8.0ppm ?!!!

Get that molly out of there!

Water changes. Water changes. Water changes.

[Complexity]

It's been a long time since I've dealt with a cycling tank, but can a fish survive ammonia 8.0? That seems off the charts to me!

Kevinly, get the molly out of that tank and into fresh water immediately. Then let's see what's going on.

What test kit are you using to measure the ammonia? Have you measured the nitrites and nitrates yet?

[kevinly]

What test kit are you using to measure the ammonia? Have you measured the nitrites and nitrates yet?

I went ahead and ordered a freshwater master test kit online along with something else I'm getting. All the LFS around me don't seem to have the master kit. Well they checked my ammonia for me, but they didn't have any nitrate or nitrite test kit. So I have no idea what levels those are at.

How much water should I change at once? Also how much after?

[kevinly]

Oh and the molly seems to be doing fine. He is helping me eat algae. He doesn't show signs of the water affecting him.

[Complexity]

You need to keep ammonia below 1.0ppm. So do whatever water changes are necessary to get it that low.

Still, something just isn't right. Are you sure it measured 8.0? Could you have made a typo and intended to say 0.8?

If it's at 0.8ppm, then do a 50% water change which should bring it down to .4ppm.

If it's really at 8.0ppm, I'd do a a 90% water change which will bring it to 0.8ppm. Then follow that with a 50% water change.

In both cases, you can do another 50% water change to take it down to .2ppm. From this point further, do whatever water changes are necessary to keep it below 1.0, preferably below .5ppm.

Once your molly is in safe water, I'd add aquarium salt to help it heal. If it was in water with 8.0ppm ammonia, it's not a matter of if the molly was harmed, but a matter of how badly.

[Complexity]

Oh and the molly seems to be doing fine. He is helping me eat algae. He doesn't show signs of the water affecting him.

Something's not adding up. If the water truly has 8.0ppm, that molly would be acting as if it was in a vat of acid.

Who did the testing for you?

And a LFS without a nitrite or nitrate test? Was this a PetSmart or PetCo kind of place?

What did they use to test the water? Test strips or test tubes?

[kevinly]

I might have made a mistake. At the LFS place they used the test tube one. After the chemical was added the water turned DARK GREEN. I matched that up with the card and it could of said 8.0ppm or 0.8ppm, I couldn't see that well. My mistake! They wanted me to buy the nitrate testing kit, but I hesistated because I already ordered the master test kit online.

Also when you say the water is cloudy white, mines is sorta cloudy light brown.