Started my planted tank..... Minus good light

[jwh0818]

So I just started my planted tank and I need a good light choice. Here is my tank details. It's a 29g tank 30x long, running a emperor 280 biowheel. I dose flourish only and will be starting DIY co2 Friday. It has a fine gravel substrate. I mainly wanna keep just sword plants and vals.

So by me giving you this info, what type of light should I get eg. wattage, bulb type, and brand. 2 bulb or 4 bulb

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[screename]

If all you're gonna keep is those plants and stay low tech there are many nice plants like anubias, crypts, etc. Id recommend about 2 watts per gallon if you're injecting co2

[mnemenoi]

Coralife has a 36" 96W Power Compact Freshwater spectrum (6500K) that would certainly give you more then enough light (3.31 watts per gallon). Big Al's has them for $99 and include free shipping. To be honest though you could get away with far less and have a thriving plant tank. I've grown both very well under 2-18W T-8 bulbs that were very ghetto in a 45 gallon with gravel as substrate and no attention paid to them at all. I only split them up and gave them away. I will say that the swords will likely appreciate the co2, but the vals might not. They actually prefer hard water and seem to shrivel and die in anything less then our normal old houston water.

Lighting can be a big question and really falls upon what you like/prefer. Plants do need something in the 6,500K range, but they also do well in something a bit higher 10,000K. Actinic does nothing for them, so any saltwater set up with one is really not doing you any good. Bulb Type, Power Compact or T-5, both have fans and opponents that are usually based upon their experiance with the fixtures. I myself prefer PC, but many choose T-5 and I'm sure they are just as good.

Wattage is usually generated using a simple formula for tanks. Total Wattage divided by your gallons equals your watts per gallon. 1 and under is considered low light, 2 and under is medium, and 3 and above is high light. The higher your wattage will certainly increase algae growth and it can be a real pain to deal with on a constant basis.

There are a lot of differing opinions on lighting and type for planted tanks and some great forums and websites to learn far more then I can summarize here. I can only recommend reading a lot and deciding on what is right for you and your specific demands.

Light, its what plants crave

[digitallinh]

As a word of disclaimer, I started in this hobby 6 months ago, and now have 2 algae free, heavily planted (80% cover) tanks. I probably don't know everything, but believe me when I say that doing your homework will end up saving you time in the end.

The watts per gallon rule is largely useless these days, since the variance in PAR (light useful to plants) amongst various light fixtures is high. So much of the light quality is dependent on reflector quality not just the watts or type of bulbs.

Your question is really loaded because everything doesn't add up. The key to planted aquariums is balance. At one end of the spectrum, High light, macro/micro ferts, co2; at the other end, low light, no ferts, no co2. Then everything in between. Think of it as a line.

Both methods are feasible, but you really have to commit to a point on that line. What are your goals? If you want low maintenance (no ferts/pruning) and low lighting, I would go ahead and do away with the co2. Inconcistent supply of co2 will only lead to BBA (black beard algea), but at the cost of low maintenance, you will experience slower growth.

Medium lighting, no fertilizers and co2 (your situation), also leads to imbalance. The fertilizers will end up being your plants limiting factor. Since plants need all 3 in sufficient quantities to grow. If fertilizers are limited, then the opportunistic algae will swoop in to take advantage of the abundance of light.

Ideally, you want LIGHT to be your plants limiting factor if that makes sense, since without light not much of anything (besides diatoms) will grow.

To answer your question. You want a low light solution. I would buy the zoo-med T5HO (it's cheap, but good enough for low light due to poor reflector quality) light and suspend it about 6 inches above your tank, which is what 18 high? That puts your light probably 20-22 inches from the substrate, I think the PAR for that is around 30.

If you want LED, those marineland led lights are pretty terrible (which puts you in the lowlight category), double bright at 24 inches puts you at 20 PAR.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/lighting/160396-led-lighting-compendium.html

If you want to do it right, you probably have some reading to do.

www.plantedtank.net (hands down best planted tank website, plus cheap quality plants to buy!)
www.barrreport.com (Estimative index dosing, usually high tech)

Google, Diane walsted method -- this is your totally hands off setup called El Natural.

http://www.aquascapingworld.com/magazine/May-2008/Magazine/El-Natural-Vs-Tom-Barr-s-Low-Tech.html

Hope this helps.

[Totenkampf]

there are some good answers here! one thing to mention is that if you plan to dose co2 then the biowheel needs to go. biowheels and wet/dry sump type filters are great for oxygen exchange and this means your co2 is being removed.

T5HO and PC are the same technology, a PC is just a bent T5HO. That said I prefer T5HO since if ran it side by side with my PC. I think my opinion is mainly based on the fact that you can get less expensive but better quality T5 lamps than you can for PC these days. You can get really inexpensive but good T5 fixtures from Current USA, wavepoint, catalina, and even the base model aquaticlife.

i know the PAR thing is all trendy but it does not seem to be a good rule of thumb to me. How many of us have PAR meters? How many fixtures and lamps have PAR information included on the box? Without these, the PAR measurement is not useful for determining what fixture to buy. WPG can still be useful as long as you understand that 3-4 WPG for a high light tank considers T8 or T12 technology. Use less WPG for T5, PC, and MH lamps and really large or shallow aquariums. Use more for smaller or deep aquariums. Maybe you could handle PAR ratings in the same way if you had a large database of PAR readings from different fixtures which includes the distance of the lamps off of the substrate.

I have noticed that the reflector quality has gone way up in the last ten years so its definately worth it to look into a fixture with quality individual reflectors.

Mixing your own fertilizers is also the way to go imo. PMDD worked well for me when I started but I prefer the merits of PPS-Pro now.

[jwh0818]

So thanks for the info. I do still have a couple of questions. How many bulbs would I need for swords. Its really the only plant I have found I like. And also, how do you make your own ferts?

[jwh0818]

If all you're gonna keep is those plants and stay low tech there are many nice plants like anubias, crypts, etc. Id recommend about 2 watts per gallon if you're injecting co2

Why 2 wpg with co2?

[Totenkampf]

regular swords would do just fine a 2wpg, the really red ones (or any red plants other than some crypts for that matter) will like more. i know someone makes a triple T5HO fixture (catalina maybe) so 3 x 26w / 29 gallons will get you around 2.7wpg, a 2 x 39w fixture will get about the same but thats 36" long. if you dont mind the overhang, the 39w lamps will have better intensity and cover more. you will want to make sure that you are dosing CO2 if you get into these light levels or you will end up with algae when the higher plants dont compete for all the nutrients.

go to thekrib.com and look up Poor Mans Dupla Drops (PMDD). Dupla drops were one of the first liquid ferts on the market but were pricey. It is way cheaper to mix ferts than buying flourish products all the time. You can buy bulk powder fertilizers and liquid dispensers at green leaf aquariums or any hydroponics supply store. PPS-Pro is similar but it is more focused on dosing macro (N, K, P) and micro (trace) nutrients on different days and then doing a large water change on the 7th day to kinda start over and prevent excess nutrients. The EI stuff looks good too but I have never tried it.

[Tetranerd]

Swords will take as much light as you give them. I have one in nano that grows slower under spiral pc. And in main tank I have 2 ho and 4 t8 normals. All 4 footers. The red swords will keep color with high iron. Low iron and they.are green, higg iron they will hild orange and reds longer, but turn green.

And balance is key, enough light, co2 and food. And remember, in nature swords.are under full exposed sun.

[jwh0818]

Okay for now I hooked up 2 6500k, 23w cfl bulbs along with the 5500k T8 that has unknown watts and my swords are looking like this? Its brownish see thru spots. Does anyone know why?

[Totenkampf]

yes, those are emersed leaves and wont survive underwater, you should trim them off close to the crown. nurseries grow swords hydroponically with the leaves out of the water (emersed) so that they will grow more quickly and so they respond with thicker, round shaped leaves. when you submerge the plant it will start sending up the softer looking lance shaped leaves. better to cut most of them off so that the plant doesnt spend any energy trying to maintain a dying part of itself. i usually leave maybe one emersed leaf just to be safe, but it should have enough stored energy in the root ball to put out new growth. swords are also heavy root feeders so they appreciate fertilized soils and/or root tabs

[jwh0818]

Thanks. But do you know why it started dying

[jwh0818]

Thanks. But do you know why it started dying

[Totenkampf]

the emersed leaves are designed to take co2 from air not water, they dont work underwater so its natural for them to start to degrade when the plant isnt using them anymore. every sword that i have ever had will do this.

[jwh0818]

Okay so if I hook some co2 up then they wont die off any more?