help wanted with setting up my planted tank

[finfan]

ok guys, i desparately need your help to set up my tank, i will give you a description of my tank and then ask for advice on various matters:

Tank: Acrylic, 24"L*12"W*24"H (Eclipse system II hood - includes two 18" Daylight Fluorescent Bulbs, filter pump, filter cartridge, and the BIO-Wheel).

Goal: planted tank (i know this is juvi of me to think that we can do this, but we want to take a stab at aquascaping the tank - go figure)

Goal inhabitants: 4 rams (can't decide which type), 20 cardinal tetras, 2 bettas (m/f), more later depending on how these get
acclimated, maybe 2 oto's for algae if i have any after plants are established

Substrate: Eco-Complete, from limited research i have done, it seems like if you want to put some sand in the front or in between two EC areas, they get mixed up eventually, so i was thinking that i can get some fine light/whitish gravel and put them in between two EC areas (a path or river of sorts between two planted areas that i want to keep open w/o any plants on them), from your experience, Q1) do you think the mixing with EC will be less/manageable if we get finer gravel compared to sand?

Water and fish acclamation: Q2) What is generally the pH of the houston tap water?  since i will have EC (which has live bacteria), Q3) do you think if i declorinate the water with the tetra solutions it will affect EC or cycling?  also, when i get fish from the store or moving my 3 fishes from my current aquarium, Q4) do you think i need to QT them in a holding container or just float them on the tank in their bag until temperature is same and then put them in the aquarium or what is the best approach?

Bio-spira:  Q5) anyone use this for cycling?  since i have EC (which has bacteria), Q6) do you think it is useless to use bio-spira?  if i do use BS, Q7) should i put that right when i set up the tank and then add fish?

PLEASE PLEASE answer my questions so that i don't make foolish mistakes, i really appreciate your feedback

[Mzungu]

Re: help wanted with setting up my planted tank

Just one thing I saw before your questions - the m/f betta pair will probably not do well together. Males are very aggressive, really toward any other betta. You can have as many females together as you like, but the male will most likely beat up any other betta in his house.  :)  

Everything else sounds great! And a hint, you WILL have algae. Algae is always there. But that doesn't mean it will be unsightly or anything, or take over the tank! Keep up with the good maintenance and you won't have any problems. It also tends to kind of go in cycles, especially when first setting up a tank.  :)

1) In my experience, everything's going to mix after a while. However, your idea does seem logical. I just don't know. Also depends on if you plan on vacuuming the substrate while doing water changes, which will accelerate the mixing of the two. (Another idea is to put some kind of divider between them.)

3) I'm not sure what tetras solution / dechlorinator is (maybe AquaSafe?), but no, it shouldn't mess up anything. Just add it as directed. If you haven't bought dechlor. yet, my favorite is Prime. 2 drops per gallon lasts a long time.

4) I think there are a few questions in this one.
 a) Moving 3 fish from current aquarium - yes, acclimate them to your new tank's water well. You might even want to consider waiting on adding them and use some filter media from your current tank. That way your cycling will take almost no time at all, and you won't have to buy BioSpira.
 b) Totally separate is adding other fish from a store. If you have 2 tanks, ideally I would move your 3 current fishes to the new tank after cycling and then use the old tank as a QT for any new arrivals. That way no healthy fish is put at risk.
 c) Adding new arrivals/transferring fish - Allow at least 30 minutes for acclimation. Use a fish/aquarium ONLY bucket and pour fish and their current water in. Then, slowly add water from the destination tank into the bucket. I usually do this for about 30/45 minutes, about a cupful at a time.  That way you not only acclimate them to temperature, but also the specific parameters of your water. Do not add anyone else's water to your tank. When the fish are acclimated, net them out of the bucket and place them in their new home. (There's also a drip acclimation thread we have on here. I'll find it and post a link for ya.)

Hope that helps a little. I have not used BioSpira, so I'll leave that to others. Also, I don't remember what my tap's pH is, and it tends to fluctuate depending on where in Houston you are located.

[Mzungu]

Re: help wanted with setting up my planted tank

Drip Acclimation:

http://houstonfishbox.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=1583

[sproett]

Re: help wanted with setting up my planted tank

I pretty much agree with what Mzungo had to say.  I live in Houston, near Reliant Stadium and my pH stays at 7.6.  If you add most of your plants when you start the tank that will help your tank cycle quickly, as well as using established filter media.  I would skip the Bio-Spira.  I used it once and didn't notice my cycle happening any quicker.  And, to repeat, don't put lfs water in your tank.  You can introduce disease (like the dreaded ich) in your tank that way.  I only used one type of substrate so I can't help you there.

[finfan]

Re: help wanted with setting up my planted tank

thanks for the advice, it is very helpful, what is the best source of different types of rocks/driftwood? is there any places in houston (within 15/20 miles of galleria) that has some natural source of rocks/driftwood?  i always thought it would be so cool to get these things actually from a natural source (or is that a bad idea altogether)

[PhishPhreek]

Re: help wanted with setting up my planted tank

ok guys, i desparately need your help to set up my tank, i will give you a description of my tank and then ask for advice on various matters:
Tank: Acrylic, 24"L*12"W*24"H (Eclipse system II hood - includes two 18" Daylight Fluorescent Bulbs, filter pump, filter cartridge, and the BIO-Wheel).

20g high - will need more light to get to the plants on the bottom - a 20g long would work better as a plant tank.   Change to "growlux or other plant bulb and remember that flourescent bulbs get dimmer as they get older and should be changed out every 12 months

Goal: planted tank (i know this is juvi of me to think that we can do this, but we want to take a stab at aquascaping the tank - go figure)

A planted tank is an adventure, not a goal.

Goal inhabitants: 4 rams (can't decide which type), 20 cardinal tetras, 2 bettas (m/f), more later depending on how these get
acclimated, maybe 2 oto's for algae if i have any after plants are established

Rams, cardinals & bettas like soft water.  Houston tap water is hard.  Get a good pH test kit and find some soft driftwood for you tank.  I have had Male Fighting fish kill female and even one mean female kill males.  A heavly planted tank may give the runner enough places to hide but you should also consider other species of betta (not splendens) that are good comunity fish.  Try one of the mouth brooder species as they don'd need a bubble nest on the surface to reproduce.

Substrate: Eco-Complete, from limited research i have done, it seems like if you want to put some sand in the front or in between two EC areas, they get mixed up eventually, so i was thinking that i can get some fine light/whitish gravel and put them in between two EC areas (a path or river of sorts between two planted areas that i want to keep open w/o any plants on them), from your experience, Q1) do you think the mixing with EC will be less/manageable if we get finer gravel compared to sand?

In the old days we would place a layer of potting soil on the bottom and cover that with newspaper, then we would cover the newspaper with gravel.  To plant all you had to do was poke a hole in the newspaper.   Generally this worked for about a year before we had to redo everything.  You should be ok as long as you avoid koolie loaches and chiclids that burrow in the substrate.  Or you might want to try a thin sheet of plastic.

Water and fish acclamation: Q2) What is generally the pH of the houston tap water?  since i will have EC (which has live bacteria), Q3) do you think if i declorinate the water with the tetra solutions it will affect EC or cycling?  also, when i get fish from the store or moving my 3 fishes from my current aquarium, Q4) do you think i need to QT them in a holding container or just float them on the tank in their bag until temperature is same and then put them in the aquarium or what is the best approach?

When moving your fish from one tank to another you should avoid large temp or pH changes as this may shock you fish.  When releasing forign fish into your
world,  Try not to shock them unpacking and avoid mixing with your other fish untill you are sure they are healthy and disease free. (2 weeks quaranteen)

PLEASE PLEASE answer my questions so that i don't make foolish mistakes, i really appreciate your feedback

We have all made foolish mistakes, learned from them, and continued to enjoy the hobby.  But the great thing about the Fish Box is that we can all learn from each others mistakes and not lose our pretties.

[PhishPhreek]

Re: help wanted with setting up my planted tank

thanks for the advice, it is very helpful, what is the best source of different types of rocks/driftwood? is there any places in houston (within 15/20 miles of galleria) that has some natural source of rocks/driftwood?  i always thought it would be so cool to get these things actually from a natural source (or is that a bad idea altogether)

Try the ferry landings - but remember that waterlogged driftwood is on the bottom of the rivers & bayous, the driftwood that you find on the waters edge will need a piece of slate or tile attached to the bottom to hold it down.

[finfan]

Re: help wanted with setting up my planted tank

thanks phishphreek, that is awesome detail advice, hey, i just realized you are in texas city, i had to go there for work for a few months few years back and went to the texas city dike area during lunch, lots of birds and fish, do you ever go there to see the fish and stuff (or are they too chemically potent!!!)

[PhishPhreek]

Re: help wanted with setting up my planted tank

When My wife died and my kids all graduated, I sold the monster house in Dickinson with the giant fish room 20'x32' and bought this little 2br/1bth and turned the 1 car garage into a fish room.  Now I can go fishing on the dike any time  and feed all my fish in 5 minutes or less.
I was born in Houston and grew up in Galveston.  I still like the taste of the local sea food better than anywhere else.   I spent 6 years in the Navy and got to see BLUE water but I still came back home when I got out.   I programmed safety & control systems for all the petro-chemical plants all around here.  But I like working in Budwiser and Frito-Lay plants better because you don't have to worry about what you step in or what drips on your head.  Had a 29g brackish tank of locals for the last year, but recently tore it down - they grow too slow and they have no color.   Might just try a local saltwater tank again.   The last time I had one was in 71,72.

[finfan]

Re: help wanted with setting up my planted tank

wow, that is so cool, i wish i had that many life experiences, in time, hopefully i will, maybe not the same, but experiences nonetheless!  one of these days i have to go back down in galveston/texas city coasts to see some natural fish, but i will wait a few months so i don't melt in the heat!  its been crazy hot lately

[Tiapan]

Re: help wanted with setting up my planted tank

cant help but agree on the heat, i agree with just about everything said for the tank. for local materials like rock and wood i have found that there are lots of options i tend to boil my sticks first though to kill any possible nasties and also to help them sink faster. this takes some of the life (as in how long the wood will last in the water but hey you can always go get more from fallen branches and the like. i would just stay away from any with licens or molds on them because those can sometimes be toxic. but have enough wood in the tank and the ph will drop.
Also since it is a little deeper of a tank some plants i would recommend since it is lower light are: java fern, java moss, Italian Vals (i cant stop mine from growing like crazy, and they look great in a taller tank) hornwort (also really fast grower) Wisteria, and maybe some bronze wendii in the front or dwarf sagitaria or normal sagitaria.

[Tiapan]

Re: help wanted with setting up my planted tank

oh and Phreak  I think you should try a local salt tank, i think those are really cool especially with the predatory hermit crabs and stuff, you find all kinds of cool little critters just by getting masses of seaweed, i think i may try another salt in the near future but its gonna be a local tank because that stuff is cheap   well in comparison

[finfan]

Re: help wanted with setting up my planted tank

tiapan, thanks for the boiling tip, i did not know about that, so i am guessing, i can just go collect any wood (without foreign objects on it), boil it and then use it in my tank, i am going to collect some soon (memorial park/hermann park), i'm so pumped about this,

also thanks for the plant suggestions, i did not know what to get, also, i want some sort of a low carpet plant for some small area in the tank, any suggestions on easy to maintain carpet plants?  

with carpet plants, i am assuming i should get a few, put them evenly in the area i want carpeted and then they will grow and cover the area?

[eklikewhoa]

Re: help wanted with setting up my planted tank

Everyone pretty much summed it up for you...

IMO Eco-complete is ok but doesn't work too well for the finer plants or soft water sensitive plants cause Eco will raise hardness or keep it from dropping.   Also might be a problem keeping fish that are more sensitive to water params too.

Depending on how you want to maintain the tank will better help anyone suggest what substrates etc to go with. IME I love ADA aquasoil! It lowers pH and Hardness and keeps it steady even with Houston's hard water and is like magic soil when it comes to growing plants! But before you start relying totally on the substrate you also need good lighting, co2 and possibly ferts to get a good balance of things that the plants grow and flourish on.

Most to all carpeting plants will require soft/fine substrate and high lighting since the plants on the ground will get the least amount of lighting compared to all the other plants and high lighting will be needed to keep them carpeting plants.  There are other alternatives but it will not be carpeting but will fill in the ground pretty well but in a small tank it might not look so well. The easiest thing you could try is moss tied over stones or something but that would need to be vacuum of detritus.

With carpeting plants I prefer the uniformed look and possibly going with a bit taller plant behind it instead of just throwing it all together.

[finfan]

Re: help wanted with setting up my planted tank

added new pix to my album, wanted to post here, but i exceeded my 1mb upload limit, so can't add here

added a rock to the tank

the crypt lucens are not bad, but not doing that great either, no growth other than a very few little leafs popping out, melting is continuing

the java ferns look more lively, but that is about it

the nanas look fine, one of them opened up and grown a leaf (added picture)

algae is visible on acrylic, i need to get the ocats or wipe it, not much algae elsewhere

the bogwood still has the fungus in the same places, it did not spread, but staying steady