replaced subtrate planted tank/refugium

[Raul]

I started a refeugium almost 10 months ago for my cichlid tank, and well just a simple one with normal gravel and started added plants and some ghost shrimp that was before, now I have some CRS, nerites and still mystery snails i still like them

After several months of tinkering with CO2, inverts, plants well I decided to mess with subtrate since the one I had was not really designed for that, so I decided to replace the whole subtrate and very happy and well went with the black color becasue of the CRS i have.

So what I did, the first layer of laterite and sand, then two bags of eco-complete, and a big differnce, the good thign since it is a refuge (techncially now it is not a refugre is two tanks sharing the same filter) no need to cycle since the filters of the top tank can do the work for both.

one thign for sure there is nothing wrong with normal gravel for planting I guess you can addd root tabs or other stuff, but well what I used on my main tank for subtrate since it is a fish only tank, didnt really go well with the planted tank.

I am no aqua scaper yet so that is questionable, but at least I think it looks better now and the shrimp look nicer too. Also some of my plants are aquatic something I still need to learn :|

pics of before and afer.

[Totenkampf]

cool Raul! i think it is still technically a refugium since it is being used to remove nitrates from your main tank, although a riparium would be doing this more efficiently. i like the idea!

[mnemenoi]

Very cool, I was actually thinking it would be a disaster imagining replacing my substrate. Gravel to ecocomplete is a very good choice, hopefully the CRS won't mind the Ph creeping up. I have had troubles with them reproducing in eco-complete, they'll live just fine just won't reproduce. How well do the submerged plants do with Nitrate removal? I have heard that using floaters like Hyacinth and Water Lettuce are very good at exporting Nitrates (basically thinning the plants and throwing the extra away). Do you have a light cycle or just leave the bulbs on 24/7? I imagine they'll blow up with good light that never turns off.

[Totenkampf]

in mu observations, any floating plants will have a faster metabolism than immersed. i used a similar approach with a riparium and even azolla. for a tiny plant that stuff is a nitrate sponge and its a nice snack for koi. i guess u could have a light going 24hrs like they do in saltwater macroalgae setups but i thought that i had once read that the immersed plants get less efficient with a longer light cycle? isnt that when algae starts to get a hold on the nutrients? it will be interesting to see what raul reports. since this is part of a cichlid system i would bet that the water is already at a higher pH?

[eklikewhoa]

Since everyone else has questions...


- Have you tested your co2 levels to see if what you are injecting is actually being effective? With the tank volume I don't see how this is worth the trouble.
-Photo-period on reverse schedule?
-Plant selection list?

I think this is a great idea for nutrient export btw and great job pulling it off!

[algarciajr]

Any updates on the nitrate removal?

I am thinking of throwing a bunch of anacharis in my wet dry for nitrate removal and feeding the extra to my trophs if they will eat it.

[Raul]

CO2 levels I assume are closer to 30ppm I have the drop checker and it is always green, regarding the plant selection list well have swords , water lilies, cabomba, anubia nana, and I am not sure if it is some microsword, and I have a phothos hanging on the side. wisteria, and I have a lot of plants once i see which ones are growing good, I might remove the others that are not.

Since everyone else has questions...


- Have you tested your co2 levels to see if what you are injecting is actually being effective? With the tank volume I don't see how this is worth the trouble.
-Photo-period on reverse schedule?
-Plant selection list?

I think this is a great idea for nutrient export btw and great job pulling it off!

[Raul]

Nitrates, are doing good 5~10 ppm, the total load of fish is: 18, and in the refuge I have about 30 shrimp, and 8 snails. Still doing weekly water changes, the CRS are doing good I already have females that are berried.

Any updates on the nitrate removal?

I am thinking of throwing a bunch of anacharis in my wet dry for nitrate removal and feeding the extra to my trophs if they will eat it.

[Raul]

I have right now a light cycle since currently I am running 3.5 wpg, I am running like 7 hours of light, and well I have two CRS females berried but that doesnt mean the shrimp-lets will survive but they are breeding.

Very cool, I was actually thinking it would be a disaster imagining replacing my substrate. Gravel to ecocomplete is a very good choice, hopefully the CRS won't mind the Ph creeping up. I have had troubles with them reproducing in eco-complete, they'll live just fine just won't reproduce. How well do the submerged plants do with Nitrate removal? I have heard that using floaters like Hyacinth and Water Lettuce are very good at exporting Nitrates (basically thinning the plants and throwing the extra away). Do you have a light cycle or just leave the bulbs on 24/7? I imagine they'll blow up with good light that never turns off.

[Raul]

Well I am running a light cylce right now, and nitrates seems ok 5~10 ppm before I had probably after a week around ~20ppm but my plants have not matured yet so I am sure nitrates might get lower later, and well my PH right now is at 7.4, but since I am injecting CO2 I think that is what is keeping it down. I also have phothos hanging on the side, but well not sure how much it is contributing on the nitrate removal I think it is the whole combination of plants.

in mu observations, any floating plants will have a faster metabolism than immersed. i used a similar approach with a riparium and even azolla. for a tiny plant that stuff is a nitrate sponge and its a nice snack for koi. i guess u could have a light going 24hrs like they do in saltwater macroalgae setups but i thought that i had once read that the immersed plants get less efficient with a longer light cycle? isnt that when algae starts to get a hold on the nutrients? it will be interesting to see what raul reports. since this is part of a cichlid system i would bet that the water is already at a higher pH?

[Raul]

Regarding on the photo-period and reverse schedule?

well I am running right now siesta mode, normal schedule about 4 hours in the morning and 3 hours of siesta and then 3~4 hours again of light, but normal hours, I have the tanks in the office and since I work from home, I want to see the tanks when i am there, and if I had reverse schedule then I would have to stay up too during the night too, and i don't it will be a good idea on the long run ;-)

[Totenkampf]

when reverse scheduling is used, it is common to black out the refugium so that no light makes it to the main tank....probably not practical in your case but supposedly works well in reef setups.

[Raul]

Just and update, so I think I have accomplished the refugium purpose and also making it look good as a second tank, right now my nitrates by the time there is a water change (weekly) stay on 10ppm and with the amount of load well I think is good:

The total of gallons 75g, bio load 16 young adult fish, 5 babies but already swimming with the others, about 35 shrimp (CRS, Orange Bee) also 5 nerites, and two apple snails and 4 Otos, and 2 vampire shrimp. So with that amount of load i think 10ppm of nitrates are very good.

Also plants are not mature so I assume once they do there might be more nitrate absorption, I am not dosing KNO3, only K2SO4,

KH2PO4, MgSO4 and CSM+B Plantex . I was having some issues with Algae, I think with all the changes, I got all the algaes at once, staghorn, hair, bba, GSA, GDA, and well my DIY CO2 is not the best so I started adding EXCEL and that has really help, I am adding soon pressurized but well everything looks nice.

I dose my ferts considering the 75Gal, even that the refugium is 20gal, and well there is no algae or anything on the Cichlid 55G, also my drop checker in the 20gal stays green I am sure I need a stable CO2 system also the water going up and down the main tank will degas some of the CO2, but since the drop checker is green I guess it is good. I have right now 3.5 wpg so it is high light but well I guess that is the purpose of having all the green stuff growing there than on the other tank.

[Complexity]

Looks really good! The Eco Complete won't affect your pH like most of the other planted substrates will so it shouldn't have any negative affect on your shrimp. That's one reason I really like Eco Complete. You can put it in and add fish immediately (with a cycled tank) without any worries. It also won't break down like some of the other substrates. And, yet, it grows plants very nicely.

I suggest lowering your light wattage. You don't need it that bright for the plants you have. The only reason to ever have it that bright is for people who are doing special planted tank designs with a low growing foreground, and they have to have the extra bright light to penetrate deeply enough to reach the bottom of a large tank (like a 75g). Even if you did want to grow some kind of fancy foreground plant, your tank is so shallow, you still wouldn't need that much light. Cut your light down about half of what you're using. For some idea, I have a TEK T5HO 4 bulb fixture, but only run 2 bulbs at a time. When I was working on a fancy foreground plant, I did what is known as a "noon burst" which is to let all 4 bulbs run for about 1.5 - 2 hours in the middle of the day; otherwise, I kept things to just 2 bulbs. That is pretty common for planted tanks. The days of massive wpg have played out and found to be nothing more than unnecessary overkill that generated more problems than it resolved.

Are you coming to the GHAC meeting this Saturday? I'm planning on bringing some crypt wendtii 'bronze' that would work really well in your setup. It grows like mad in any tank, and will really love the Eco Complete and CO2.

You're probably a bit under 30ppm if your drop checker is green. When it hits 30ppm, it turns a yellow green. But you don't have to have it that high unless you start having problems with BBA. As long as you're on green, you should be fine. 30ppm is the very highest you can go before you start harming your fish.

[Raul]

right now I have the checker at yellow green now, and well the light the good thing I can take off like a couple of T5 and I will endup with, 42 Watts instead off 70, will the 42 Watts do it ? also I can add a T5 HO to one fixture but it will only give lie 21 waths but that will give like 49 Watts