few questions for newb

[BiGPiNK]

I have a 55 gal which in all honesty looks a hot mess.
I would love to go the planted route but am a little concerned about the equipment i have now and the possible required investment needed to get started.
1st question, 55's are really tall tanks, is there anything at all that could grow under double brights at this depth?
Failing that if i could maybe trade for a pc light, or dual t5, how would that affect my options, would it make a great deal of difference?
2nd question, co2 setups scare me both in cash terms and complication terms. Could i get away wirhout one, and if so, how does that affect my options again?
3rd question, are there any fish i should avoid in a planted tank? I know there are marine fish which aren't "reef safe", does the same concept apply to planted tanks?

I know from marine experience that research is key, so i humbly submit my questions in the hope you guys can give me the right advice (i'd trust you guys over the ever-conflicting opinions other forums always give you)
Thank you for any helo you can give, and please, don't be scared to tell me NO! I'd prefer to not do it at all than do it badly. Thanks again HFB!

[mnemenoi]

1st question, 55's are really tall tanks, is there anything at all that could grow under double brights at this depth? Never tried double brights or even any LEDs so it would be a gamble, I'm assuming low light plants would be good

Failing that if i could maybe trade for a pc light, or dual t5, how would that affect my options, would it make a great deal of difference? Indeed, I like PC and T5's. They have great penetration and in the correct spectrum can provide a solid amount of lighting. Use the Watts per gallon rule to determine your intensity. For Example 14 watts on a 10 gallon tank 14/10=1.4 wpg. 1-2 is low light, 2-3 is moderate light and 3+ is high light. I find 2.5 - 3.0 is ideal for nearly anything. I use the oddeyseas off ebay and they are fine for anything I want to do. The seller is located in Houston and shipping takes a day or two.

2nd question, co2 setups scare me both in cash terms and complication terms. Could i get away wirhout one, and if so, how does that affect my options again? I never use CO2 and have many planted tanks. They are referred to as low tech. C02 can acidify your water, so low tech set ups generally hover at your Ph of tap water. Other then very low Ph fish and the few oddball plants nearly anything else thrives, just use liquid carbon (Excel) and it acts as an algaecide and gives the plants an available carbon source, win win

3rd question, are there any fish i should avoid in a planted tank? I know there are marine fish which aren't "reef safe", does the same concept apply to planted tanks? Some plecos and snails that eat plants. Avoid silver dollars and nearly any herbivorous fish, but it takes no time to look it up and realize they are just a bad fit for a densely planted tank. To be honest there are just a few and some weirdoes that no one usually keeps anyway in even normal tanks (Distichodus and headstanders). Once you get more familiar with what works and doesn't its not very hard to spot stuff that is not plant safe.

[mnemenoi]

The planted tank forum (http://www.plantedtank.net) has a terrific section on just low tech setups and using their search feature for 55 gallon tanks can provide you with a wealth of different ideas and what worked and did not for other hobbyists with a similar tank size.

[BiGPiNK]

Thank you so much for taking the time mnemenoi! I guess i just need to get my substrate sorted and maybe look at a trade for my lights.
I'm on my way to that site right now to check everything out and start my learning curve!
I didnt realise aquatraders shipped from houston, i wish they actually had a store here!
Thank you again for your help, its nice to know its worth a try and have a new resource to learn from!
You rock mnemenoi!

[mnemenoi]

No sweat,always glad to help out. the planted tank usually requires a log in, but its a great site and I can usually find some very focused info as they just have soooo many users from all over the world.

Substrates can be an entire course by themselves. In my opinion you have 4 different options (there are likely a myriad of them, but I'm condensing it a bit)

Inert planted substrates - Flourite (Seachem has a lot of different colors and they are available at Petsmart for cheap) great overall substrate, usually we blend it with another to create body in the substrate without altering the other substrates qualities

Inert with added fertilizers - Eco-Complete - In my opinion it is a terrific substrate and everything you'll need starting out. It was my first and 4 years later that tank is running strong still. Generally does not alter Ph (can shift up a slight bit with acidic water, but in alkaline water it has no effect)

Ph reducing - Stratum, Aquasoil, Brightwell Aquatics, ect. - They can acidify water over time. Will lower Ph, but the effects are dependent on the hardness of the water used in the tank. Some are far more effective in the long term and some cuase ammonia spikes. If you are interested just ask and I can try and cover the differing brands and pros/cons

Sands - overall basically inert substrates. The larger grains are better for root growth. Used with root tabs can be great. Can also be used to 'top off' another substrate to provide the effect of sand with something else underneath.

Hope that helps a bit, if you have any questions about anything more specifically just ask and I'kll try and help

[BiGPiNK]

Maaaan, you are a star!
In all honesty i was looking at either sand (not that keen, would prefer a dark substrate)
Or the eco-complete as nearly everytime ive heard it referenced it has been with awesome results and seems to be the"all-in-one" solution
All of that is conditional though, really wanted to trade substrates (im not all that hopeful as i have U-G-L-Y substrate) but having said that, i'm not really in any hurry and guess i could save a little while i'm doing all my research.
So you used eco-complete? Is it pretty much a drop it and forget it solution? Ive always wondered about siphoning substrate in a plated tank what with roots and all

[Mike&stef]

I had a 55 gallon for the longest time and kept community fish, but the more planted tanks I saw made me want to start my own. So instead of going thru and buying all new lights, filter, substrate, ect. I sold my 55 gallon and downsized to a 33 long. Its a shorter tank so I could go with a cheaper light setup and not break the bank. It also came with a canister filter which in my opinion is the way to go. I used black gravel, eco complete and some fluval shrimp substrate I got from someone to start growing plants.

Read up on fertilizers and buy some seachem excel and find the balance of dosing, and how much light your tank needs. Also I dont think its necessary to vacuum your substrate in your planted tank since your plants will be consuming the fish waste. I could be wrong tho...

[mnemenoi]

In all honesty i was looking at either sand (not that keen, would prefer a dark substrate) Sand comes in all shades now, try looking over the Carib-sea site and even Seachem has black sand just for planted tanks.

Or the eco-complete as nearly everytime ive heard it referenced it has been with awesome results and seems to be the"all-in-one" solution
All of that is conditional though, really wanted to trade substrates (im not all that hopeful as i have U-G-L-Y substrate) but having said that, i'm not really in any hurry and guess i could save a little while i'm doing all my research.
So you used eco-complete? Is it pretty much a drop it and forget it solution? I have used it, but we have plants in every one of our tanks (10+) and each one has a different mix of substates. I really do like it as a great starter planted substrate. Once you get the feel for the plants and lighting you can try something a bit different and you'll not be overwhelmed by trying to understand substrate and plants and lighting all at once. The ferts in it do wear out eventually, so you'll eventually need to start dosing ferts. I use Root Tabs, Excel, Flourish, Iron, Pottasium, Nitrogen, and a trace of Iodine for the shrimp.

Ive always wondered about siphoning substrate in a plated tank what with roots and all. we treat it just like sand, basically we pull off what accumulates off the top, but if you watch and do not overfeed even that is not an issue. The plants uptake the Nitrates and when it all settles out we have zero readings across the board. We water change more out of habit and to avoid TDS buildup in the tank as evaporation can really build up minerals if you only top off the tank with tap.

[BiGPiNK]

Ok, without meaning to get too deep, and also not meaning to take up too much more of your time,
Lets say i buy rodi water for a planted tank (already do for marine, wouldnt be any extra hassle) is the water going to be too "stripped"? Of minerals, is there a case to be made for tap water bwing preferable?

[mnemenoi]

Ahh, a very sharp and complicated question indeed. TDS and minerals do assist in planted tanks, especially wherein there is no CO2 injection. As to the exact amount is arguable and a hotly debated issue on other forums. RO/DI water is defecient on all minerals and is difficult unless you specifically target plants from regions with similar water parameters. Our issue here is that they die and crash in local stores, so they do not stock them. Getting them is hard and can be very frustrating. I am combatting issues in a 6 gallon low tech tank with distilled water and a Ph below 6 with only Ph altering substrate (Brightwell Rio Escuro) and most of my plants that thrive otherwise are doing dismally. We happened upon some Bolbitus and it usually crashes in most tanks in our area, but it is thriving while the others barely hold on or die out completely.

The true complication can be in mixing, thus acheiving the TDS you want. Plants have a tendency to bind minerals and uptake them, so thus will acctually 'soften' the water over time with nothing added. I have found using our tap is great for nearly all plants, but their certainly are exceptions and some can not uptake Excel and will plummit with its use (vals and fissidens being the best examples) but its really trial and error with certain set ups. Everyones tanks are distinct and planted tanks even more so as no one likely has your exact parameters, light, light schedule, fert regimen, substrate, plants mix, hardscape, and livestock. All those things can throw monkeywrenches into what worked there does bad for you.

Your welcome to swing over and look over our tanks the closer you get and see a variety of options and we can walk you through what we do and how we achieve effects. Seeing things first hand can be so more helpful then reading them...

[BiGPiNK]

Wow, i can see this is going to be like starting all over again in marine! Its taken me 3 years to get to where i am and i have years of learning to come!
Thank you so much for the offer, i'll definitely take you up on it! You may have to put aside an entire day for me though, ive got so many questions!

[Mike&stef]

As did I but its a great learning expierence. The next planted tank I set up I will know exactly what to get and what to put together first before I add livestock.