Pea Puffers with Zebra Nerites?

[morpheus]

I have a planted 10g tank that only has 3 zebra nerites in it now, and assorted pond snails. used to be an RCS tank but the breeding never took off. I was thinking pea puffers now, but would they kill the nerites?

I read on other forums that nerite shells are very hard so they normally dont bother. if the nerites gets flipped though he is done.

if they will feasibly co-exist, how many pea puffers can fit in a 10g without fighting?

[mnemenoi]

Hmm, I'll aswer in the list you asked to the best of my ability.
1. They would molest and nip at the Nerites. Its just instinctual. They would do it for days, weeks, until they were dead. If your not terribly attached to them no biggie, but I'd expect total losses and anything else is gravy. Try larger Amanos, they do great algae detail and are far too big for pea puffers to mess with. Even Ghost Shrimp or adult Cherries can hold their own.

2. I imagine Nerites "getting flipped" is not really accicdental and were a culmination of days/weeks/months of constant harassment from the puffers. Having one that is cool with Nerites is awesome, imagining that you can get more then that is extremely wishful thinking. They just see snails and immediately attack for food. I have seen them slowly decimate a huge apple snail over 2 months before if finally gave up the ghost.

3. Sex ratio is important, as is line of sight and density of foliage. The less line of sight and dense foliage the better. Females are lots less aggressive and territorial then males. Usual ratio recommendation in 1 male to 2-3 females. My recommendation is try 2 males and 4-6 females in a heavily planted 10. Males have wrinkles under their eyes, females don't. Check pics online, they are very good at spotting the difference. Add males at the same time and watch for severe aggression. 2 males are certainly optimal in that setup, but can be hard if there is not enough breaks to provide 2 distinct territories. Plant it tall, they get everywhere and don't stick to one area. Good Luck, they are terrific fun and a joy to have, once they get all settled in.

[morpheus]

thanks roy. just want to try something new here

1) i was kind of leaning towards your first point thinking the snail still has an exposed foot, and the puffers would nip them to death eventually. i care nothing for the pond snails, but can always move the nerites into my daughters 10g (which only has 3 giant danios and 1 nerite in it now). the RCS just never bred and died off, so maybe i could do amanos.

i also heard oto cats mix well with pea puffers for algae detail. is that true?

2) agreed. snails dont generally just fall off of things, so "flipping" i assumed meant they got nipped and fell on their backs. just trying to protect at that point but nerites dont really get off their backs if they ever get in that position somehow.

3) i thought 1:3 ration was right so didnt know if 8 (2M and 6F) could fit in a 10g. i was guessing one male and rest females.

right now the tank is more mid-top loaded with plants. the wisteria you gave me months ago has taken off everywhere with runners all of the place. never grounded it so it looks like a hanging root forest.

if i ground it in places i think i could essentially make a wall in the middle. otherwise just get a few sprigs of anacharis to grow quickly. i do have flat rocks too

[mnemenoi]

Sounds good, yeah that would be my recommendations. Glad to hear the plants worked! Wisteria gets crazy, but awesome for dense foliage and helps protect macroinverts the puffers will love hunting. Ours had MTS & Assassins in the tank and would occasionally nab one of the babies, but the adults were too tough and buried themselves well. It sounds really doable all the way around and PP love dense planted tanks. Otos I'm afraid fall into the same category as Corydoras as tankmates. Sometimes they are awesome and you never have any issues. Sometimes they bite their eyes out and harass them endlessly. Always a gamble. Some rasbora/microrasbora/tetra could work as tankmates (They are from slightly hard water in India for ideas on possible species from that biotope). Try looking at Choprae danios, Dwarf Emerald Rasbora, Celestial Pearl Danios, and for some oddball fun stuff you can even give the mini moth catfish a go. Loaches should do alright, maybe a queen botia or some sidmunthunkis. Zipper loaches would do well with that sort of set up and endless hours of chasing is what they live for.

[morpheus]

thanks for the info roy

I went down and picked up a group of 4 pea puffers (1M and 3F) after work and a group of 5 amanos. i see in other sites one puffer per 5g, so i hope they arent too cramped. They are all settling in now. The nerites were moved. Tank might be a little warm as it was registering 86F...so the "automatic heater" might be a little off and i can hook it to a timer. otherwise ammonia, nitrites and nitrates were all zero. pH was around 8.0

will maybe get a video tonight. the amanos were going absolutely nuts when introduced. looked spastic and jetting around, sometimes landing on their back before shooting off again. possibly the "holy crap look at all this food" reaction. they looked a lot more calm this morning, the three amanos i saw.

the puffers were exploring mainly, but werent very interested in the bloodworms last night. some were picking off those seed shrimp i posted about in my plant tank a few months back. some investigated the small pond snails but didnt eat them. found 3 of 4 puffers this morning before work so will search again after work

they are neat to watch :)

[mnemenoi]

Very Cool, love to see some pics! Ours were bloodworm eaters only, try soaking it in Vita-Chem FW to balance their diet and supplement vitamins.

[morpheus]

i bought some daphnia cubes too to give a varied diet. also have some brine shrimp cubes although those i know arent very nutrient rich. will look into those vitamins too.

Here is a pic of the tank (kind of a jungle mess i know), one close up of an amano, and one of the male puffer. video will be a better view so will work on that

amano.jpgpuffer.jpgtank.jpg

[mnemenoi]

Great pics and perfect example of what densely planted line of sight blocking in a tank should look like!

[morpheus]

update: the puffers seemed to have settled in nicely. all are now regularly eating bloodworms. one puffer took a while longer to start eating but did eventually. they kinda nip at eachother a bit and chase, but i think i actually got 2 males and 2 females. i lost 2 of the amanos as i can only ever see 3 at a time.

only thing that annoyed me is the anacharis i bought that same day. both bunches have seemingly died already. were very green and full when purchased. i am dosing with flourish excel every day, and they have essentially melted away to nothing. dont know why as i thought two 6000k daylight bulbs and dosing were enough for a more generic plant...

[tpark]

Hmmm. Maybe the Excel killed it. Melting is a pretty good sign. From my experience anacharis just grows, regardless of it has light or ferts. I would try again with no excel dosing.