all these h2o conditioners.....

[swinters66]

I was wondering....has anyone ever tried these water conditioners...and do they actually work? I am getting another filter for my discus tank, since the more filtration I have, the better!!  I looked at Tetras Blackwater extract....is this a good product? I also looked at Ketra peat nuggets, that you add to a filter bag and add to a filter...I read some discus owners use peat....so would this be something I could use? Then there is something called a neutral regulator, which says it keeps the PH at 7.0. Now is that regardless of what filtration is used? How many fish are in the tank? My husband thinks most of these things are useless and they probably wont work...but I would like an opinion from people who have used things like this...whether they do work, or they are a waste of money, etc.

Thanks in advance!! How bout this nasty rainy weather us houstonians are getting!! Blah!

[Mzungu]

Re: all these h2o conditioners.....

Haha, speaking of rain water!! I get so excited when it rains! I know a lot of people frown upon this, but actually, to help soften my water I collect rain water in one of my fish buckets and add it to the tank (in certain proportions) when I do water changes. So, I'll have a good supply here soon! I have also used both the Black Water Extract and peat granules. I prefer peat, just because it's cheaper for me. But both seem to do an okay job. I have noticed that peat doesn't turn the water as yellowish as the Black Water Extract, although that never really bothered me.

As far as the neutral regulator, some of these have phosphates in them, which can really turn into an algae problem. I'm not sure if this is a chemical, but I tend to shy away from adding chemicals and such to my tanks. In my opinion (which could be wrong) it seems as though the more natural way tends to both take longer to work and last longer, which is usually a lot less stressful for the fish because the alterations to the water chemistry aren't as sudden.

Hopefully some other people have opinions about these products, as well!

[Ellen]

Re: all these h2o conditioners.....

I don't trust chemicals to change the water chemistry. They might change your pH for awhile, but then it could bounce back up or down or whatever. The fish will adapt to a different pH than the one they are native to, but they won't handle bouncing pH very well at all. I also figure that the less chemicals you add to the tank, the better it is for your aquatic life. I don't even really like using AmQuel+, but I haven't gotten the money to buy a filter for the chlorine here yet...

I don't have any experience with peat, sorry I can't add any thoughts to that.

HTH,
Ellen

[Ellen]

Re: all these h2o conditioners.....

Geez, Mzungu, why do we always ninja-post each other?!

Ellen

[SCOTT]

Re: all these h2o conditioners.....

I hate to tell you this, but listen to your husband!, hehe. The fancy chemicals and additives, while they will work, they typically only work for short periods then rebound horribly. If you are trying to achieve soft water with a low ph I would suggest using peat. Not those over priced peat pellets or anything like that, but true peat like you get at Lowes or Home Depot. For the price you would pay for 1 small bottle of black water extract or ph down, or any other similar product, you can get a cu yd of peat.
Rinse the peat well in a bucket, allow it to soak overnight, then take the material that is floating on the surface and add it to a filter bag, old pair of nylons, whatever, and place it into your filter. The downside, this will turn your water a yellowish color from the tannins in the peat, the upside, your water will be nice and stable and the ph will work its way down at a comfortable pace. You can minimize the coloration with water changes, and or carbon filtration. Water changes will of course cause the ph to rise as you put unsoftened water into your tank, so be aware of that. The best way to do a water change would be to have peat filtered water run thru a carbon filter to remove the tanins, then adding the softened, polished water to the tank. Not really practical for most people, but if you have a little room in your garage and an extra pump it is deffinately worth the effort. Hope that helped, and again, listen to your husband!!! hehe.

[Mzungu]

Re: all these h2o conditioners.....



That's funny, Ellen! But at least we tend to agree!  

[PhishPhreek]

Re: all these h2o conditioners.....

A few years ago I was breeding wild cought betta falx (a mouth brooding betta species - the male carries the eggs in his mouth)

http://ibc-smp.org/species/index.html

these guys like soft water and a pH between 4.7 & 6.8 which I had a lot of dificulty acheeving with standard chemical treatments.

I was finally successful by using a 55g barrel under my rain gutter with about 6" of oak leaves in the bottom.  Wild Almond leaves are commonly used by betta breeders.  They work similar to peat including turning the water brown,

I found that a old diatom filter will remove the brown haze without affecting the pH.

[swinters66]

Re: all these h2o conditioners.....

Its ok Scott...my husband has more experience with fish tanks than I do. But being he is a SA cichlid lover...and they are very hearty fish....well, his tanks are simpler than my discus tank will be.  I just want to make sure I am doing this right, before I get the discus home you know? I think I will try the peat.

And my husband has hoses he hooks up to the sink....so water changes will be super easy at our house.  Takes the water out of the tanks super fast!

I really appreciate all the replies, and thanks to all for helping me out on this!!

[Smokin_Cache]

Re: all these h2o conditioners.....

swinter are you going to age your water any prior to putting it in the tank?

Because I am injecting CO2 into my tank I let the PH controller do the work on that end. I do age my water in a barrel in the garage. I adjust the KH on it to match the tank kh and add the prime. I keep my discus at a cozy 85-88F. The barrel water in the garage even as hot as it get in the day is always right at 86F. It also has a air stone running in it.  I do get a little PH swing when doing a water change until the CO2 builds up in the new water.  So I am working on fixing that by injecting CO2 into the inlet of the pump I use to move the water from the barrel to the tank.

While my tank was cycling I tried adjust the tank ph and had a very hard time with it.

[Tiapan]

Re: all these h2o conditioners.....

i am gonna say go with the peat as well. stability is a very good thing. now oldly enough i dont usually age my water at all. give it is chlorine remover as i fill my bucket and into my tank it goes however i dont have any discus and i know how sensitive they may be. but i also try to go more natural on my tanks now with lots of plants not a lot of filtration and lots of fish and plentiful feeding instead of fertilizing the plants. its much more of the el natural approach but it requires less frequent water changes which is very nice on my time driven schedule.

[swinters66]

Re: all these h2o conditioners.....

Well when I first set up the tank, after it ran for about 2 hours, I had the PH tested 7/23 (day I set the tank up) and it was 7.7 or 7.8....one or the other....I now have another filter on the tank. I added more wood for decoration, and I know the tannins in those will help soften the water. The water is heated to about 86.6 and has been that temp for about 2 days now (I was adjusting the heater most of the week). The only thing I added was Aquasafe when I initially added water to the tank. New carbon filter cartridge was bought for one filter and ammo/carb in old nylon for the other filter. And I have 2 corys in there, and 4 harlequin rasboras, to get the cycle going. So far, so good with those fish. So, this tank will probably stay discus free for another week...while I monitor the water, get some peat and get a bristlenose pleco for the tank.

That was the other thing....at the lfs...they have something called a moss ball...its just that, a ball of green fuzzy moss haha...and they told me its good for nitrates. Wondering if anyone has seen these moss balls, and if they really do work on nitrates.

[Smokin_Cache]

Re: all these h2o conditioners.....

From what I can see with my tank any and all live plants are good for nitrate control. Of course some are better than others. IMO the more live plants the better.

[Smokin_Cache]

Re: all these h2o conditioners.....

If I were you I might wait a little longer to add the discus. Hey I have a 90g dose of Bio-Spira in my fridge that is going to go out of date if it doesn't get used. As far as I am concerned it is the only proven over night cycling product. Come get it. Bring your husband and I can show off my tank!  I think I paid $30 for it I hate to see it go to waste.

[swinters66]

Re: all these h2o conditioners.....

Yeah Ive been wrestling with live plants...I know I should use them and eventually I will....funds and not enough experience keeping a planted tank as of yet. I have some silk plants in there now, for decoration. But I do love amazon swords.

Ill ask my hubby about driving to your neck of the woods....he's like you haha...LOVES showing off his tanks! His pride and joy!!! I just checked out your 125 project photos...outstanding tank!! Its just beautiful!! You did a great job!

[Smokin_Cache]

Re: all these h2o conditioners.....

Te;; you what I have a small sword (I am pretty sure that's what it is) that you can have. I had one in a 10g 10 a few years ago. No special lighting, no additives at all and it did fine. Even bloomed and had lots-o-little ones. I don't think anyones experience level is to low to have some plants. IMO they make the tank easier to take care of and they look nice to boot.