First Tank Questions

[Darkwynd]

I've finally bitten the bullet and gotten some stuff to start my first tank (and there was much rejoicing). Went to the store intending to get everything to get the tank going and naturally came away with more questions. So here goes:

1) I'm planning to add corys to my tank once it is established, and I've heard that abrasive substrates are bad for their barbels. Will they do okay with regular aquarium gravel (the cheap TopFin kind you can get at Petsmart/-co) or do I need something finer?

2) What water conditioners should I use, particularly to start the tank? I know I've heard people on here recommend AmQuel+; Kordon says to use AmQuel+ and NovAqua+. Are both necessary?

3) I'm putting zebra danios (GloFish specifically) in the tank, so I'm planning to use them to cycle it. I know I'm supposed to set everything up and run it for a while before I put fish in, even if I'm not doing a fishless cycle. At what point do I know the tank is ready to introduce the fish?

I hate to be a hand-holding newb, but I just want to get my first tank off to a good start. Plus with small children in the house, I don't want to have to field "Daddy, why's that fish upside down?" questions.

[CichlidFan]

You've got plenty of time to do some research....there's some really good articles on setting up your first tank and even more advanced tips on african tangs or south american....

lots of folks like Pool Filter Sand for their substrate....it does show well and is easy on the fish....but corys' might like something a bit heavier to push around...like the small gravel you mention from top fin....experiement..smiles.

I like both Prime and Stress Coat with AloeVera...or Amquel ....I use it sparingly....about a cap in a half per every 40 gallons or so.....(I have mostly 135 gallon tanks)....

There will me more folks adding their opinions and advice, so be prepared to do some reading....and might as well poke around the web some too and see what other folks have to say....

Good Luck...

CF

[mark razmandi]

you will want to use something to remove chlorine such as stress coat or a tap water conditioner...you could even use something to speed up bacterial growth ike stress zyme....i personally use tap water conditioner and stress zyme from the same company...i try to keep the chemicals to a medium....gravel wont be a problem on your cory's...ive had cories for years with small gravel and have had no problem....there are alot of articles about setting up tanks that are great....anyones best advice is REASEARCH RESEARCH RESEARCH....and dont slack off on your water changes or you will have to be answering those questions to your kids

[Complexity]

1) I'm planning to add corys to my tank once it is established, and I've heard that abrasive substrates are bad for their barbels. Will they do okay with regular aquarium gravel (the cheap TopFin kind you can get at Petsmart/-co) or do I need something finer?

It doesn't matter what brand you get, just check the corners of the grains of the gravel. If it has sharp corners, stay away from it. If it has rounded and dull corners, it's fine. Larger grains allow more stuff to filter down in between the grains, such as food and detritus, whereas smaller grains keeps stuff more on top. This can make it easier for cories to get to the food. However, smaller grains, such as sand, compact more easily. There is no perfect gravel or sand as both have their advantages and disadvantages. I'd stick with a small grain gravel (in between sand and large grain gravel) with no sharp edges.

2) What water conditioners should I use, particularly to start the tank? I know I've heard people on here recommend AmQuel+; Kordon says to use AmQuel+ and NovAqua+. Are both necessary?

This is actually two different subjects. (1) Water conditioner and (2) Tank cycling.

(1) Most any water conditioner will do. Each person has their favorite. I used Stress Coat for years until I compared prices with Prime and realized that it didn't do anything special for my fish, but it sure cost a lot more. I now use Prime and am happy with it. You want something that will remove chlorine and chloramine from the tap water. Pick whatever product suits your fancy.

(2) Cycling a tank is the process in which certain bacteria enters the tank to turn ammonia into nitrites (with an "i"). And then a second bacteria enters the tank to turn the nitrites into nitrates (with an "a"). There are products which claim to help with this process, but truth be told, most are a waste of money because they do not contain the correct bacteria needed.

There are two ways to cycle a tank. One is to wait it out. As long as there is ammonia in the tank, bacteria will magically appear on its own. Once the first bacteria converts the ammonia into nitrites, the second bacteria will magically appear. This process generally takes about 6 weeks. You can do this with fish or without fish (aka "fishless cycle"). When doing it with fish, you must be very careful to watch the amount of ammonia, nitrites and nitrates in the water to keep it safe for the fish. Ammonia and nitrite poisoning is very deadly and very cruel to fish.

If you want to cycle a tank faster than 6 weeks, the best way is to introduce bacteria from an established tank. The bacteria will be on all hard surfaces of the tank, substrate and filtration. A dirty filter is loaded with good bacteria. So if you know someone with a healthy established tank, you can grab some of the substrate or a dirty filter cartridge to jump start your tank. You can put whatever it is inside of your filter or put it in pantyhose and lay it on top of the substrate in your tank. The bacteria will populate throughout your tank.

Please note that I emphasized healthy tank. Getting bacteria from an unhealthy tank will also transfer diseases to your tank which you do not want. Only get bacteria from a trusted source, such as an experienced hobbyist. Never get it from a pet store, such as PetSmart or PetCo.

3) I'm putting zebra danios (GloFish specifically) in the tank, so I'm planning to use them to cycle it. I know I'm supposed to set everything up and run it for a while before I put fish in, even if I'm not doing a fishless cycle. At what point do I know the tank is ready to introduce the fish?

You need to get the API Freshwater Master Test Kit. This will contain all you need to test the water for the ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. Remember the cycling I mentioned above. At first, you'll just see ammonia. Then nitrites will appear. And then nitrates. As each appear, the predecessor will begin to disappear. In the end, you'll end up with 0ppm ammonia, 0ppm nitrites and 5ppm+ nitrates. This is when the tank is ready for fish. Perform regular water changes to lower the nitrates when they get too high.

To get more information about the cycling process, do a google search. There are tons of articles written on the subject.

I hate to be a hand-holding newb, but I just want to get my first tank off to a good start. Plus with small children in the house, I don't want to have to field "Daddy, why's that fish upside down?" questions.

It's far better to ask questions before hand than to be in the disease forum, begging for help with dying fish after the fact. The more questions, the better.

[Zulaab]

I've finally bitten the bullet and gotten some stuff to start my first tank (and there was much rejoicing). Went to the store intending to get everything to get the tank going and naturally came away with more questions. So here goes:

Welcome to the fun of owning and caring for fish :) You will enjoy it tremendously :) Everyone here can tell you there a few rules to abide by and I recommend more than anything else.. ask questions.. there is no such thing as a bad question, because if you dont ask, and something goes wrong which the community could have prevented we are all going to cry. So ask away please !!!!

1) I'm planning to add corys to my tank once it is established, and I've heard that abrasive substrates are bad for their barbels. Will they do okay with regular aquarium gravel (the cheap TopFin kind you can get at Petsmart/-co) or do I need something finer?

You have a couple of options. Many of us who have kept fish for a while have quickly learned where the better products and the cheaper items are in the hobby.
1. If you want to use sand go get Leslie's pool filter sand. Cheapest and you dont have to rinse the sand before putting it in your tank.
2. Pea gravel. I recommend going to lowes or Home depot. (I dont recall which one it is that carries it so you will need to check both places). They sell a nice pea gravel which you WILL NEED TO RINSE and it looks identically to the pea gravel you can get at Petco/Petsmart. They rinse it for you, and charges you an arm and a leg for this bag of pea gravel (like $4.00 vs $20.00 for the same amount). You mentioned cories, and they would most likely like the pea gravel.

2) What water conditioners should I use, particularly to start the tank? I know I've heard people on here recommend AmQuel+; Kordon says to use AmQuel+ and NovAqua+. Are both necessary?

Water conditioners.. There are three out there that I see people use. I am not going to recommend one over the other. I prefer Prime or Amquel+ myself, but you can also get stresscoat which will detox your tank.

3) I'm putting zebra danios (GloFish specifically) in the tank, so I'm planning to use them to cycle it. I know I'm supposed to set everything up and run it for a while before I put fish in, even if I'm not doing a fishless cycle. At what point do I know the tank is ready to introduce the fish?

I would personally NOT use danio's as your tank cyclers.. they are not hardy fish. Personally I would setup your tank -- see below I am going to ask questions for you to answer and lets move on from there. okie back to your answer.. Setup the tank.. get everything running and drop 4-6 cories in your tank. Depending on the size of your tank you are going to want to add two or three Bristlenose pleco's (or Albino Bristlenose pleco's in there to help clean your tank) These guys are the ONLY fish you are going to have in the tank for the next 2-4 weeks.

I hate to be a hand-holding newb, but I just want to get my first tank off to a good start. Plus with small children in the house, I don't want to have to field "Daddy, why's that fish upside down?" questions.

Okie time for my questions.
1. What tank size did you buy ?
2. What filtration did you get ?
3. Heater ?
4. Lights ?
5. Since you said Cories and Danio's you are most likely going to want to plant your tank. Are you wanting to plant your tank ? Real plants or plastic plants.

The cories and the BN/ABN will help you cycle your tank, they will eat quickly any food that is offered into the tank and at night they will scavange for anything left over. This is good because you dont want the food added to your tank get a chance to ruin your cycle and have the issues of "Daddy why is the fish upside down not moving"

I hope this helps...
Keep smiling :)
Jesper

[Mzungu]

I know I'm supposed to set everything up and run it for a while before I put fish in, even if I'm not doing a fishless cycle. At what point do I know the tank is ready to introduce the fish?

I dunno about this. As long as the tank has all the dechlorinated water in it, and a filter running, you can put fish in there. No need to run the tank without fish for any period of time.

I happen to find danios VERY hardy. I think others feel the same, since they genetically engineered them to show physical changes according to water pollutants. But that's just my experience.

Of course, if you can get filter media from someone else here on HFB or someone you know with a tank, like Vicki said, that would be such a great help. And it would be much safer for the fish in the new tank, since you're not planning on doing a fishless cycle.

Edit: And yes, tell us what you got! :) And also, as Vicki said, be sure to get a test kit so you can monitor your tank during cycling and then afterwards for stability and nitrates.

[wesleydnunder]

I think Vicki was having some fun with a copuple of her statements. The beneficial nitrifying bacteria she was describing don't magically appear, they are introduced into the tank with the water. The amount of time it takes for bacteria to appear and grow into sufficient numbers to handle the tank's bioload is directly proportional to how well the water provider sterilizes their water system. The better the sterilization, the longer it takes for the nitrifying bacteria to arrive via the water. This assumes you're not jump-starting the process with cultured media.

Mark

[Darkwynd]

Okay, here's the vitals on what I've bought so far:
- 20 Gallon tank
- AquaClear 20 HOB filter
- 15 watt flourescent hood light (will probably upgrade later)
- Haven't bought a heater yet, trying to decide if I want to shell out the extra $ for a Visi-Therm Stealth over an Aqueon or TopFin Heater.
- A few silk plants from an old betta tank, plan on adding to these; not wanting to do live plants to start with
- Some decorations for fish cover

In reading stuff over the last two days, I've heard some talk about using SeaChem Stability to speed up the cycling process. Sounds like it could be too good to be true. Any input?

I know a couple of people with tanks, but I don't trust them to be clean enough to get filter media from them. I seem to recall from the member map we used to have that nobody lives anywhere near me (Hwy 6 & I-10), but if anyone does live/work over here or could meet me someplace that'd be great. Just not sure if the bacteria would live given the drive times involved...

[Mzungu]

I know someone kind of by you, but I won't give his name until I ask him about it, lol. :) I'll PM him in a second.

Personally, I wouldn't bother with a heater. I don't use them, they make me nervous. As long as your tank's temp doesn't fluctuate too much as a result of being right next to an AC vent or something, the temp should stay stable and the fish you're planning to keep don't really need extra-warm water. The only time I ever use a heater is when I have an outbreak of ich, which doesn't happen often at all, but I keep a heater in a drawer just in case. :)

[Zulaab]

Okay, here's the vitals on what I've bought so far:

- 20 Gallon tank
Good beginner size :)
- AquaClear 20 HOB filter
Excellent choice of filter.. but I would recommend STRONGLY to pack it back up and bring it back to the store and then pick up the AquaClear 50 HOB filter. Same name brand just a stronger filter. This will give you better water circulation and better filtration for your tank.
- 15 watt flourescent hood light (will probably upgrade later)
Excellent start.
- Haven't bought a heater yet, trying to decide if I want to shell out the extra $ for a Visi-Therm Stealth over an Aqueon or TopFin Heater.
Go to Petsmart and print out their online price. They will honor the prices this way. Else you are going to pay an arm and a leg for the same item. Personally since I love it cold at my house (Mzungu can tell you how cold I keep it) I need a heater in my tank (my betta lives in 70 degree water, without a heater) Visi-Therm 100w will do you fine.
- A few silk plants from an old betta tank, plan on adding to these; not wanting to do live plants to start with
Perfect.. With a 20g I would just go get two Bristlenose pleco's they will keep the tank clean.
- Some decorations for fish cover

In reading stuff over the last two days, I've heard some talk about using SeaChem Stability to speed up the cycling process. Sounds like it could be too good to be true. Any input?
If you read my report from the other post. I would get two Bristlenose pleco's and about 4 (since your tank is a 20) cories. Let them roam the tank for the first 2-3 weeks and then your filter will be seeded.

I know a couple of people with tanks, but I don't trust them to be clean enough to get filter media from them. I seem to recall from the member map we used to have that nobody lives anywhere near me (Hwy 6 & I-10), but if anyone does live/work over here or could meet me someplace that'd be great. Just not sure if the bacteria would live given the drive times involved...

Since you live somewhat close to me, I can also invite you over and you can borrow some seeded material which will help you get going even quicker.

[Mzungu]

Jesper to the rescue! :)

That's the guy I was talking about who lives near you. And yes, his house is a cool place. Cold, though, when you run in soaking from a downpour. :)

[Darkwynd]

Okay, then I'll do my bottom feeders first instead of the danios. I can get the corys any time from Petco, maybe tomorrow, but I'll have to wait until this weekend to look for a bristlenose.

Jesper, I'll send you a pm to see about getting some media.

Thanks a ton!



P.S. If I'm getting a bristlenose, where is a good place to get wood for it to rasp on?? Should any LFS have some? All I can seem to find at Petsmart/co is terrarium wood, which I'm sure won't sink any time soon.

[Mzungu]

I still say danios first. :)

[Zulaab]

I say bottom feeders first.. you want all the food to be eaten off the bottom first.. Danio's will not go get the sunken food.
All of my bristlenoses are in tanks where there are 0 wood in them. They have hiding spots for them to go to, but that is about all they have. I have yet to lose one.

Did you get my PM regarding the filter size ?

[Darkwynd]

Jesper: I left you a pm.

All: The tank is set up! Thanks again for everyone's help.

I made a new thread for my tank here (http://www.houstonfishbox.com/vforum...908#post409908)