Tank pH question

[Grimace]

First off, I like to say that I have a background in chemistry, which includes general, organic, and biochemisty. Second, I'd like to say that I don't know much about fish. All of my fish (most of them cichlids) are used to a pH around 8, but now that I have a larger tank (125 vs. 36), I am having a hard time getting it more basic. The tap water here is around 7.6 (I just moved), and after adding about 7 ounces of pH up it hasn't budged. I added the appropriate amount each time, waited the appropriate amount of time and even after waking up this morning there is no change. This leads me to believe that there is a buffer in the tap water. I know I can't just keep adding the base to the water, because as soon as the buffer is overcome a drastic surge in pH is likely and it won't be stable. I bought some proper pH 8.2 from API, and was assured that it would get it to the correct pH in a gradual fashion, which goes with what the label on the product says, but I have got some very conflicting information from pets mart before and thought someone here would know more about it. One last thing so you know the whole story, I have an issue right now with aquarium worms, but believe that I have gotten them down to a manageable level with a small amount of salt (can't remember right now what was recommended, but I added slightly less). Is the proper pH 8.2 safe for my fish??

[armthehomeless]

Let me preface this by stating that I'm cheap. I don't mess with pH up and pH down for the reasons that you explained in your post. Baking soda is cheap.

You may be able to contact your local MUD to find out what is being put into your water. With that said, most freshwater fish will be fine in 7.6 pH. Why are you trying to change it? In my opinion, it is more important to have a constant pH than to have a slightly higher pH that will fluctuate with water changes.

[Grimace]

Let me preface this by stating that I'm cheap. I don't mess with pH up and pH down for the reasons that you explained in your post. Baking soda is cheap.

You may be able to contact your local MUD to find out what is being put into your water. With that said, most freshwater fish will be fine in 7.6 pH. Why are you trying to change it? In my opinion, it is more important to have a constant pH than to have a slightly higher pH that will fluctuate with water changes.

pH up wasn't that expensive with a 36 gallon tank, but 125 is another story altogether. As to why I want to change it, I have heard that my Dempsey's are more likely to breed at their ideal pH, which I believe is 8.0-8.2. Also, the proper pH 8.2 also has a buffer in it to keep the pH stable at 8.2. My concern is that I don't know how the two buffers will play together, especially not knowing the chemical structures of both. Also the time it takes the pH to change is a concern, I don't want it to jump too fast.

[mnemenoi]

The proper Ph for your fish will depend entirely on the species and its degree of acclimation. Cichlids can vary quite a bit from the softwater biotopes of South America to the Hardwater Rift lakes region of Africa. I am assuming you have African Cichlids, as that is one of the few areas that might have a Ph that is in the area of 8.2. It is considered a generally tolerable range for most Rift lake dwellers, though to be honest there are some locations that wander well up to almost 9.0. Another consideration is whether the fish is wild caught (WC) or was bred and raised in an aquarium (F1 or further). WC fish are expensive and it would certainly be known upon purchase, otherwise I would consider them tank raised. WC fish can be a bit pickier, but tank raised should have no problems with a generic Ph of 8.2.

As far as permanently raising the Ph of your tank and maintaining it for an extended period there are several different approaches. One is via substrate, using crushed coral or argonite to increase the minerals and thus the alkalinity of the tank and should maintain it as a buffer. You can find different varieties of substrate sold as Rift Lake or utilize some crushed coral marketed for salt water tanks. Along those same lines, many enthusiasts utilize Texas Holey Rock or another type of limestone as decoration in the tank. It will break down and slowly dissolve into the water column and work as a buffer. Most specialty shops carry it and some landscaping shops as well, just make certain its free of chemicals and pesticides before introduction. A third option that I have heard met with success is adding Rift Lake salts during water changes. Basically they serve the function of a Ph corrector, but most are collected originally from the lakes by evaporation.

Hope this helps and there are quite a few more avid Rift Lake aficionados then I, but this would be my plan of attack. It would certainly help to give a list of what fish you have or some photos. It would help everyone to guide you to their proper environment. Good Luck and let us know what you find effective.

[mnemenoi]

Sorry, you'll have to ignore that last post. Jack Dempseys are Central American and will breed quite readily at your current Ph. I would not alter it a bit.

[supadave]

Let me preface this by stating that I'm cheap. I don't mess with pH up and pH down for the reasons that you explained in your post. Baking soda is cheap.

You may be able to contact your local MUD to find out what is being put into your water. With that said, most freshwater fish will be fine in 7.6 pH. Why are you trying to change it? In my opinion, it is more important to have a constant pH than to have a slightly higher pH that will fluctuate with water changes.

+1

I read that they should be kept in a ph of 7 to 8 . Have you tried breeding at 7.6 ? I seriously doubt that -.4 ph will make a difference .

[Grimace]

Thanks everyone for the info. Good stuff.

[electricblue]

mnemenoi is right, certain substrates and holey rock will help raise your ph. idk what the tap water's
ph here in pasadena is but i got my water tested before and after adding holey rock and that pushed it into the 8's area

[Zulaab]

Holey rock will change your pH over time. About the time you have noticed the change, your fish have died of old age. 99% of the holey rock out there is blasted (so it looks nice and white) therefore any loose alkaline from it will not come off easy to make the water change.
Houston tap water should be left alone. Unless you have wild caught discus I would not even touch the water. 99% of your fish will live happy in the water they are put in. Dont change it.

[electricblue]

oh, ok... the only other thing i could think of that i changed besides adding holey rock was i changed from
petco pebbles to pool filter sand when the water was tested the 2nd time

[armthehomeless]

How are you testing your water, electricblue?

[electricblue]

i just took it to petsmart those two times before and after, ( not to test the ph, but bc i had some healthy fish die out of nowhere)
anyways they use those test strips

[wesleydnunder]

I'd suggest investing in a Freshwater Master test kit at your first opportunity. I keep fish that, in the wild, occupy both ends of extreme ph; wild discus and Tanganyikan dwarf cichlids. I keep both in local tapwater. I learned a long time ago that for me, monkeying around with water chemistry quickly got expensive and completely unnecessary. Fish have no receptors for ph and have no idea what the ph of the water they're swimming around in, is. As mentioned, consistency is much more important than trying to hit some elusive target.

Mark

[electricblue]

yea, i'll probably get a test kit, eventually. not to mess with the ph, but just to make sure everything is ok