Small tank: this serpae tetra is a bully

[fishnox]

Hi,

I'm new to this. We just bought an Edge this week. We stocked it today (starting slowly--want something small) with two shrimp, a white skirt tetra, and a serpae tetra.

This serpae tetra is chasing everyone, shrimp and fish alike. The white skirt seems to be bothered by this, whereas the shrimp seem to take it in stride. The white skirt just keeps looking like he's looking for a way out. (Even when he gets a break while bully fish is distracted by shrimp.)

So, what do you do in a case like this? Wait it out? Get rid of bully? Maybe the white skirt is special ed?

On another note, I love these shrimp. They are hilarious. Thanks for all the shrimp tank people on here for the suggestion.

[sunkenmetal]

More tetras

[CrazyCatPeekin]

I think most folks will tell you that serpae tetras get nippy, especially when alone or in very small groups. I keep 9 of them and they don't bother any other fish. I don't know how big you tank is, but I personally wouldn't put a school of serpae in an edge. I think the 6 gallon is too small and the 12 doesn't have enough horizontal swimming space. But that is just my opinion.

Your white skirt is also a schooling/shoaling species and would prefer to be in a group. I have never kept them though, so I don't know much about their requirements. I imagine that they aren't too different from the serpae, but I would really just be guessing.

What kind of shrimp do you have? I think they are so much fun!

[ssrprelude]

Serpae do get a little aggressive. Either add more or take him out till you get more.

[fishnox]

Thanks for the responses.

So, it sounds like we made some wrong choices. We have the 6 gallon tank?

Should we free cycle one of the two species and get some friends for he who remains? Freecycle both and start over?

I should have sought input sooner. But we're not very invested yet. What would you put in the 6 gallon tank?

[sunkenmetal]

smaller tetras in a group of five or more...

[Tek]

I think most folks will tell you that serpae tetras get nippy, especially when alone or in very small groups. I keep 9 of them and they don't bother any other fish.

I am with you there. Serpaes get a bad rap. I have kept them for years without one fin nip. They were extremely peaceful and didn't even bother smaller fish like neons or fish with flowing tails like Bettas.

I kept mine in a group of 12

Thanks for the responses.

So, it sounds like we made some wrong choices. We have the 6 gallon tank?

Should we free cycle one of the two species and get some friends for he who remains? Freecycle both and start over?

I should have sought input sooner. But we're not very invested yet. What would you put in the 6 gallon tank?

smaller tetras in a group of five or more...

I agree . Probably 3 dwarf catfish like cories and 5 tetras. . In a 6 gallon there is not much room for 3 or 4 different species because the fish that are appropriate in size to the tank are usually schooling fish.

a shoal of tetras is an impressive site by itself though. Careful though, serpaes, Hi fin, black skirts and many other tetras are too big to comfortably keep their group in a 6 gallon, so make sure the tetras are the smaller Torpedo type tetras. Serpaes get a little over an inch but they have wide bodies top to bottom. Hi fins, and black skirts get even bigger

[fishnox]

Sounds like I get to explain some realities to my kids about Coconut and Julius. Luckily, they are compassionate and will understand if we need to change the tank for humane reasons. If anyone thinks we could keep either with a couple of friends, speak up.

[Tek]

The White skirts are schooling fish but they could survive in trios. If you don't want to get rid of both fish. The serpae I would definitely part company with. They require bigger groups. Paradise fish and dwarf gouramis would work with white skirts too. Males fight so watch out.

maybe someone on here can trade with you.

Have you thought of getting a bigger tank I have 1 55g, a 40g breeder, three 29g, a regular 10 g, a 10g tall and two 5g that I am not using. Unfortunately they are on the other side of town and I am too lazy to go get them


BTW, the person who sold you one Serpae Tetra needs to be kicked in the butt

[Parzival]

I agree . Probably 3 dwarf catfish like cories and 5 tetras. . In a 6 gallon there is not much room for 3 or 4 different species because the fish that are appropriate in size to the tank are usually schooling fish.

OP's other half here.

We were planning to get a couple of cories but the store advised us to let the tank establish itself about a month before doing so. (Maybe the only good advice we got?) After doing a little bit of reading, I am concerned that the substrate we chose may not work for them. We used a 5# bag of acrylic coated gravel, 8.7 - 9.5mm grain size. Does it need to be changed to sand?

We want to keep the shrimp and maybe get a few more. Also would like to get a snail if that will work.

I feel bad for jumping into this without doing the homework; That's a bit atypical for us, and at this point I am not very happy with the advice we got from the store.

[Tek]

OP's other half here.

We were planning to get a couple of cories but the store advised us to let the tank establish itself about a month before doing so. (Maybe the only good advice we got?) After doing a little bit of reading, I am concerned that the substrate we chose may not work for them. We used a 5# bag of acrylic coated gravel, 8.7 - 9.5mm grain size. Does it need to be changed to sand?

We want to keep the shrimp and maybe get a few more. Also would like to get a snail if that will work.

I feel bad for jumping into this without doing the homework; That's a bit atypical for us, and at this point I am not very happy with the advice we got from the store.

First of all I don't think you got any good advice. Its my experience that Corys are hardier than white skirts so the tank does not have to be cycled anymore for them. Furthermore Corys it actual food instead of simply scavenging for food, so that can't be the reason either.

secondly, sand is better for corys as they use their little barbels to poke around the substrate for food, and the rougher gravel does a number on the undersides of any bottom dweller.

However many people (myself included) have kept cories in gravel instead of sand. I have extra sand if you need to switch. It only costs 3 bucks at home depot, but it comes in 50lbs bags (way too much for your tank).

The shrimp are fine, to me they are more of a positive on the bio-load than a negative. I would not add a snail yet though. I would let the tank age a little more first. and adding shrimp, snails and corys is a bit of an overload on bottom dwellers for the size of the tank.

and don't feel bad about jumping into this without more research. Many people do it. When I was about 5 my parents got me about 5 six inch goldfish and a ten gallon aquarium.

Mot stores hire staff that don't know anything about fish. The advice from people especially at Walmart or petsmart/petco is especially worthless. Do your own research in stead. The employees are just there to pass on the fish

[Parzival]

Here's a short video of our (OP's) tank - Some aggression noted at around the 2m10s mark

[Tek]

really cute. Love the shrimp in the middle.

Get rid of Serpae as fast as you can. Most stores give refunds or exchanges.

Looking at it now you can push the limits to 5 white skirts. You don't have live plants so snails would actually help.
personally I would skip the cories. Although I love the lil buggers, I would not want to overkill the tank

[mnemenoi]

OP's other half here.

We were planning to get a couple of cories but the store advised us to let the tank establish itself about a month before doing so. (Maybe the only good advice we got?) After doing a little bit of reading, I am concerned that the substrate we chose may not work for them. We used a 5# bag of acrylic coated gravel, 8.7 - 9.5mm grain size. Does it need to be changed to sand?

We want to keep the shrimp and maybe get a few more. Also would like to get a snail if that will work.

I feel bad for jumping into this without doing the homework; That's a bit atypical for us, and at this point I am not very happy with the advice we got from the store.

Small nano tanks can be very tough to stock correctly and most store employees are untrained/unaware as to direct you to properly stock it. Cherry shrimp are terrific and do quite well, but its when they are combined with fish that we begin to have difficulties. Literally all fish will eat young shrimp, they are just tiny. About the only 'safe' fish is a dwarf otocinclus and they prefer groups and need a copious amount of algae and decent water conditions. Most are starved in stores and their mortality rate is astounding. Unless its been up and running with decent light and solid growth, I would avoid them.

On the positive side you were directed to a very good family of fish (tetras), they just likely sold you the smallest they had and hoped it would work itself out. There are quite a few tetras that can work with shrimp as well as a few other families of fish. Most are not commonly seen in stores, but you can either order them or search a bit and eventually get exactly what you want. These can occasionally eat shrimplets, but are usually good with them as long as some dese vegetation is provided to give the young shrimp a place to hide and grow.

Tetras - Ruby Tetra (Axelrodia riesei ), Ember Tetra (Hyphessobrycon amandae), Green Neon (Paracheirodon simulans), Jelly Bean Tetra (Ladigesia roloffi) all are very tiny reaching around 1" at full adult size. They all hail from soft water regions and appreciate the same conditions.

Rasbora - Nearly all the microrasbora Mosquito, Exlamation, Phoenix, and Dwarf can do quite well, but are again from soft water regions.

Danios - Celestial Pearl Danio (Danio margaritatus) are a great choice and stay small, they differ in the fact they hail from a harder water region that most neocardinia (cherries) would prefer.

Many somewhat larger tetras, rasbora, and danios can work in a shrimp tank, but it requires far more foliage and methodical feeding to keep them from preying on the young shrimp. On the upside the shrimp are very prolific and with the correct conditions they can quickly breed to insane numbers in a tank with no predators. There is quite a collection of various shrimp that have different requirements and care, so each should be tackled on a case by case basis. Cherry shrimp are the easiest to begin with and you should be quite happy with them if care is given to choosing correct tankmates.

[fishnox]

The kids have said their goodbyes to Coconut and Julius.

So, the white skirt and the serpae are ready now for someone who has more of their kind to come and take them. If you know of anyone...

http://www.houstonfishbox.com/vforums/showthread.php?50154-Free-white-skirt-tetra-amp-serpae-tetra-pics

-- We are going to keep the shrimp (amano x 2) for now and look over all these suggestions for better suited fish.

-- We are really liking some of the other types of shrimp. Are you able to mix species as long as you get similarly sized ones?