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**cope** · 02-23-2008, 01:10 AM

Re: aquarium salt?

one note on the 135 I am gonna purchase for my shop... It is a Sign shop.... & a PAINT SHOP.. I have been warned about areosols... I am wondering if the paint fumes will affect the fish.. the paint shop is seperate but on occassion you can smell paint....... maybe I should not get it... thoughts please.

**fishlady** · 02-23-2008, 01:51 AM

Re: aquarium salt?

i'm not an expert by no means.....but i will say this much....
i use conditioning salt that i purchase at petsmart....it's very fine and comes with a measuring spoon in it.....i know that my fishies seem to perk up with it....
as for the water changes...you should really go easy on those with a cycling tank.....you shouldn't change the water so often and so much with a new set up.....i usually do water changes on a new set up after the fish have been in there about 2 weeks....now i give all my tanks water changes on mon, wed and fri's....and i only do about 10%.....i then add approx a 1/4 capful of prime into the running water i am putting back in the tank.....then i add a scoop of conditioning salt to the flowing water too.....
i can't say that it's good to add fish so soon....but i am guilty of the same and have had decent luck with the hearty cichlids.....be careful if the little ones are the kind that need special water conditions like my german blue rams.....but the cichlids seem to fair rather well......
keep an eye on the waste from the fishies in the tank.....if you see that it's hovering around on the bottom then do a water change and vaccum that area with the python, or gravel cleaner that your using to do the changes with.....
like i said i'm not an expert....but relax just a little bit....your not doing anything that i can see that we're not all guilty of at one time or another.....but i do say try to enjoy the fishies too....stop stressing so much.....

**fishlady** · 02-23-2008, 01:52 AM

Re: aquarium salt?

oh....as for the 135.....i don't see that they will mind the smell if there is no residual paint residue that could come into contact with the tank water.....

**Zulaab** · 02-23-2008, 04:16 AM

Re: aquarium salt?

Cope,

On the Salt.. you will need to ask people who keep the kind of fish you have. Some like salt others dont care to much for it. Salt has the added bonus that some bacteria (the bad kind) dont like salt ie they die out before they can infect their hosts (ie your fish). Again someone else will need to chime in. I dont salt my tanks unless I believe they have bloat and then I salt more than the box says.. this is to get rid of bloat for no other reason.

Your 60 gal is doing well when you are looking at the water specs.. your 50 on the other hand not so good. This is because of the high number of fish in it. Note your Nitrites are high. They will go away soon in a week or more, but you run the risk of potentially making your fish sick or die out.
Your 60 wait another week and you will be in good hands adding fish. The 50 I would wait now at least 2 weeks before I added anymore.

The 135g -- sounds good. Let us know about the fish and we can give you an better idea of what it is she is selling.
-- now to the problems. If any residue can hit the surface of the water, I would say you run the risk of it interacting with the fish and if its something that is poisonous to the fish.. well you can guess the rest but you will not be happy about the many small crosses you will need to acquire for the number of graves you will have to dig. I would be careful. If you have access to a small tank go set it up in the shop with some fish.. if they die off quick I would not even attempt to install the 135 there.

my 2c worth
Jesper

**eklikewhoa** · 02-23-2008, 05:34 AM

Re: aquarium salt?

Salt, I use epsom salt pretty often but as for aquarium salt/kosher salt I only use it when I need to. Scaleless fish will not do well with salt but just about anything else if dosed accordingly it probably won't bother it to much. Keep in mind that salt does not evaporate so only replace as much as you take out in water.

With your two tanks.....since you already have fish in there I would do daily small water changes to keep the cycle from spiking as it should and killing the fish... it will still go through the nitrogen cycle but it will take longer but will be less lethal. If you can afford to replace the fish that are in there then just leave the tank alone to do it's thing since having the fish in there will speed up the process a bit.

135g, Personally I don't like buying used tanks....being 10yrs old it would have to be a really good deal since it would probably be close to time of having the silicone redone. With it being in your paint shop it can and will pull fumes into the water!

**Philbert** · 02-24-2008, 01:37 PM

Re: aquarium salt?

Q: Do my Mollys Require Salt in their tank to be healthy?

A: This Question has been a focal point in many
many debates; it is one of the oldest myths surrounding
the Keeping of Livebearers, and Mollies in particular.

The logic behind adding salt seems to make sense, as Mollies
are frequently found in Brackish water and it seems to be the cure all for common Molly ailments,
But if you dig a bit and Study up on Mollies in the wild you find, Mollies really are not that
often associated with brackish water as much as believed and in the wild are masters of adaptation, seeming to be able to survive in about any body of water, from a Rainwater catch basin to
the Gulf of Mexico. Most species in fact never experience salt in their natural habitat,
To further confuse this the Molly from your LFS, (or even Wild caught
in some parts of the Southern U.S.) are not likely to be Pure species,
But Hybrids of either Sailfin Molly (Peocilia latipinna),
Yucatan Molly (P. velifera, or the P. spheops complex of Fishes (the Shortfin Mollies) or all three.
No fancy Molly is a Pure species, they are all mutts.

This brings us to: Why then does salt cure all the Problems
associated with Keeping Mollies?

The Legendary Molly Breeder and, probably the most
Influential individual in Fancy Livebearing fish put it
Like This:

"If water changes are large enough and frequent enough,
and if all water is well aerated and circulated,
Livebearers (all the species I have kept)
do fine without salt added to the water.
If these conditions are not met, or if the fish are crowded,
Then troubles appear.
Thus salt enables you to continue one or more Poor tank
Management practices that are still harmful even though the
Fish may survive in the presence of salt."

This was what Dr. Joanne Norton suggested 30 years ago, I
Tend to agree with her as most of the Fancy Mollies
For sale today are the result of her early work.
I can't expand on her remarks as she knocks the subject
dead on with crystal clarity.

**(Before taking this statement to heart read the reply following this article!)**

To wrap this up Here are some tips on Keeping Molly
Healthy in your Aquarium,

In general Mollies require Space; they do not like to be
Overcrowded. This will only stress them, making them
much more susceptible to disease in the long run.
A Ten-Gallon tank should not house more than One trio
(1 male/2Female)

Mollys also need water that is clean, the right Temperature
and of the proper pH and Hardness,
It is very important to do water changes regularly,
To have Healthy Mollies 50% per week is recommended.
Temperature should range around 80 degrees, and should not
be allowed to fluctuate much.
Molly like hard and well buffered water.
It is very easy to accommodate for this, Just add some crushed coral
to the filter, this will almost always Make your water Molly
friendly.

Feeding is also very important; Mollies are Vegetarian eating mostly
Algae and the accompanying Microorganisms, A High quality Algae
Flake should be the basis of their diet, supplemented with a Good
all purpose Flake and occasional feedings of Frozen Brine or Daphnia,
Having a good deal of Live Plants also helps as it offers them grazing
options. Always try to avoid overfeeding as this reduces water
quality.

Is adding salt Harmful? Of coarse not and in the cases of a diseased,
or seriously stressed fish it can be very beneficial as it will help the fish
cope,

Is Salt a requirement? Absolutely not

**********************************

I thought I had posted in this thread before, but apparently not. Your initial post quotes Joanne Norton as saying that Mollies don't need salt. You don't mention that she did 70-80% water changes every 3-5 days ("Langhammer" method), which kept any pollutants at an absolute minimum. She also didn't keep large numbers of fish in a tank, usually fewer than 10 large Sailfins in a 55 gallon tank. One of the advantages of being an "old fart" in this hobby is having known these people personally, and knowing the conditions under which many of their statements were made.

Also, you do have to distinguish between Sailfins and other mollies. I have collected P. latipinna in many parts of Florida. They do NOT occur naturally in water that isn't brackish. (Maybe not in Florida, they do here in Texas) I've been told the same by some killifish collectors who found P. velifera in Mexico while hunting for Garmanella pulchra (another strictly brackish fish) and Cyprinodon species. Yes, many varieties of fancy Mollies are hybrids, but if they possess a large sailfin, they were back crossed to latipinna or velifera, both of which are strictly brackish fish in the wild.

If you wish to keep Sailfin Mollies without salt, you will have to do massive, frequent water changes to keep them from getting ill. Massive meaning larger than 50%, and frequent meaning more than weekly. The Shortfinned Mollies are perfectly fine with regular hard water, as they actually do occur in such conditions in the wild. The distinction is important.

Oh, and one reason that a lot of people think the salt is necessary is because they buy fish in salted tanks at the store, take them home and drop them in fresh tanks, and they die. Mike Wickham, a friend who had a store in Maryland some years ago and later wrote a great beginner's book, experimented with this. The Mollies come from the wholesaler in salted water, and need to be put in salted water at the store, as the osmotic imbalance will kill them if you just drop them into fresh water. He slowly weaned common Black Mollies over a week's time, and had no losses, making it easier for his customers to take them home and put them in unsalted tanks. When Mollies are brought home from salted water, standard acclimation of a few minutes, or even hours, is insufficient. They must be slowly weaned, over a period of several days, to get to zero salinity. Mostly they eliminate the excess salt via respiration, and since the amount they can remove this way is limited, the weaning period is dependent on the level of salinity they were previously being maintained at.
__________________________________________________ _______________________________
Philbert says:
While this is an article (arguement) on Sailfin Mollies, it is a perfect example of the salt confusion...research your particular species of fish, and if it comes from a brackish home environment use your common sense.
As with many fish keeping philosophies, lacking every single fact and detail can actually change someone's statement of fact to an opinion. I think that salting my Molly tanks will help keep the water more disease free, so I use a bit less than 1 tblsp per 5 gallons when I keep up my salt levels.
Outrageous Sailfins come from Coletto Creek, the Houston bayous, from tidal pools in Freeport, etc; fresh, brackish, and salt water all have Sailfins, so I would say use a bit in a tank without a lot of low ph fish (my Cardinal Tetras, in spite of coming from low ph waters, adapted well to my lightly salted tanks) and create a close to home environment for whatever fish you raise.

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