Calling all Discus keepers!

[thekarens]

So, a couple little bettas have created madness.  Karen (my partner) has agreed to let me have a discus tank.  This will be a long term project because I want to learn first and then we have to do some furniture rearranging before I can even consider getting any fish.  I've already gotten some excellent advice from people on the board, but I have a zillion questions so I thought I'd give them a break by posting them here so answers could be given as time and interest allows.

Questions:
Can you mix discus and if you do does it matter which types go together?

What is the most inexpensive place/way to buy them?  I assume it's to buy a group while they are juvies (recommendations of where to buy them?)

If I buy them as juvies can they still go in a bigger tank and be grown up in it instead of growing them in a smaller tank and then moving them?

Water changes: How do you do your water changes?  Do you age your water and bring it up to temp in garbage cans?

Plecos, can you keep any of them with discus?  I was thinking we would get a 55g with 5 or 6 discus, a school of cardinals and I'd like a pleco or two if they can be kept with discus.

Where's the best place to buy food for them?

I know it's a lot of questions and there will be more as I think about my project.  Don't feel obligated to answer all at once or any if you don't want

Thanks again!

[jklntx]

Re: Calling all Discus keepers!

Can you mix discus and if you do does it matter which types go together? I mix with no problem

What is the most inexpensive place/way to buy them?  I assume it's to buy a group while they are juvies (recommendations of where to buy I would start with Danny at HAW. Most serious discus keepers, I believe,  on here who have bought Discus bought them from him.

If I buy them as juvies can they still go in a bigger tank and be grown up in it instead of growing them in a smaller tank and then moving them? Of course, like any other species.

Water changes: How do you do your water changes?  Do you age your water and bring it up to temp in garbage cans?As any other change. Some people keep them in Houston water with higher PH. Some, like myself age the water and add peat and or almond leaves (I suppose some may use a chemical method) to soften and lower the PH.) Some also use a mix of aged and RO.

Finally, water quality...water quality...water quality is probably the most important consideration. Frequent water changes are critical. If breeding you  do it daily or every other day. I am not a breeder so I change 30-50% each week with aged water buffered with peat and almond leaves.[/b]

Plecos, can you keep any of them with discus?  I was thinking we would get a 55g with 5 or 6 discus, a school of cardinals and I'd like a pleco or two if they can be kept with discus. 5-6 juvies would work with a 55G. As they grow you may want to move them to a larger tank. Discus like room to swim. Another thing...they naturally feed from the substrate. Its best to leave room in the bottom to let them eat that way. They are not fast eaters and have small mouths. I have observed they will wait for the food to drop to bottom and then eat.

As for Plecos, I have 2 leopard and a bushynose. I would be wary of otos. If they get a taste of discus slime they will harass them by attaching to their body and eating the slime. Discus don't like that at all.

Where's the best place to buy food for them? Is Danny at HAW being redundant? He sells frozen bloodworms for $9 a slab. Cheaper than anyone in town.

I am only one with experience..there are many more with much more than me. Once again, I recommend you speak with Danny at HAW. He has helped many many people on this board.

[thekarens]

Re: Calling all Discus keepers!

Thanks!  I've been to HAW (neat place!) and will go back to talk to him about the discus.  I have no interest in breeding and hope to keep them in Houston water and not have to soften it.  I'm hoping this can be accomplished by getting discus already raised in our water.

When I asked about water changes I know some people with use something like a python (as I used to do with my goldfish) and pull the water out and put it right back in straight from the tap and treat the whole tank.  Didn't think discus would appreciate that as they seem more sensitive from what I've read.

[fishlady]

Re: Calling all Discus keepers!

i am noooooo way an expert by any means....but this is my experience with discus

i was so afraid to get any of these gorgeous creatures due to all the reading i had done about them, so i finally bit the bullet and started to unfold my plan....i put up a 30 gallon oceanic cube tank....put driftwood and lots of plants in it....after i was sure it had cycled i put in some bristlenose plecos, german blue rams, cory's, and finally started getting a few juvi discus....i lost a couple of them in this process. but seeing the one's i have now i think it was because i bought them from someone that knew nothing about them.....anywho......
i have moved my german blues, but i have a pair of golden rams, bristlenose, yo yo loach, kuli loaches, in the cube along with 6 discus...i do about a 20 % water change once a week, via a python and the city of houston water, i feed them flakes and bloodworms that they eat out of my hands......i have no problem with them whatso ever.....and being that i live not too far from you off barker cypress and 529 your welcome to come and see them if you'd like.....

in the discus forum on here i have pics posted of them......

http://houstonfishbox.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=6538&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=50

so that's my story and i'm stickin to it.......

[Darbex]

Re: Calling all Discus keepers!

Can you mix discus and if you do does it matter which types go together? Like JK said you can mix them however you want. However Dan mentioned this to me be careful not to mix to many different variants because it is like wearing a loud shirt. The other thing more than likely it will be difficult to get them to breed successfully but if they do you could end up with hybrids and sometimes that can be cool but then it can look horrible.

What is the most inexpensive place/way to buy them?  I assume it's to buy a group while they are juvies (recommendations of where to buy them?) Again like JK said Dan's or someone who has bought some from Dan and wants to sell them. His Discus are accustomed to Houston water so that reduces a lot of the worries with water. The basic thing you have to worry about with his is consistant pH, temp, and water quality. Ie if its 6.0 pH then new water needs to be 6.0 and etc. Also from what I have read juvies will take more care in order to get them to grow to full size. So for inexperienced and immediate gratification I would probably start with adults granted they will cost more but in the long run it will be less time in checking everything in my opinion.

If I buy them as juvies can they still go in a bigger tank and be grown up in it instead of growing them in a smaller tank and then moving them? Yes

Water changes: How do you do your water changes?  Do you age your water and bring it up to temp in garbage cans? I do mine via python once maybe twice a week in smaller amounts as not to cause a big change in water quality. If you do it via a drum then you can do more water. When I had my two in a 29G I did it via paint buckets just to make sure the chemicals were removed since I was changing about 60% every 4 days

Plecos, can you keep any of them with discus?  I was thinking we would get a 55g with 5 or 6 discus, a school of cardinals and I'd like a pleco or two if they can be kept with discus. Plecos are fine but there are some algae eaters to be weary of. I think SAE are one. I am not sure about Ottos I have seen Ottos in a Discus tank with no problems and had a couple in my 29G but I currently dont in my 140G

Where's the best place to buy food for them? I have noticed food prices arent extremely different

[szidlon]

Re: Calling all Discus keepers!

Ditto with all the advice already given, except on the plecos.  If you're going to have plecos it's best to stick with the bristle/brushy nose ones as they stay fairly small.  I've been told the larger ones will also try to attach themselves to the tasty slime coating.  I've never tried larger plecos, so my personal experience is nill on the statement, but i prefer to be safe, rather than sorry.


I hate to sound like a broken record, but "call Dan"    .

[imagirlgeek]

Re: Calling all Discus keepers!

Yep...'call Dan'.    

I, too, am a noob discus keeper, thanks to Dan's store being about 3 miles from my house.    If you can, give him a call.  Better yet, go down to his store and see all the beauties he has (there is an entire wall of discus tanks) and spend some time talking to him.  He is a great resource and really enjoys talking to customers about what you want and how to do it.  You don't have to worry about getting pushed into buying anything before you are ready either.

Here's an article on his website with a few 'beginner tips' for keeping Discus.  He's also got some beautiful pics in his photo gallery.  Keeping Discus for Beginners

[Darbex]

Re: Calling all Discus keepers!

Here is a good reading that I did among others to help prepare for them.

http://www.aqua-fish.net/show.php?h=discusfish

[nacra99]

Re: Calling all Discus keepers!

Some great answers from the other guys, but i have some to supplement.

Can you mix discus and if you do does it matter which types go together?
Yes you can mix. No it doesn't matter which go together unless you are planning to breed for a certain trait or keep a bloodline.

What is the most inexpensive place/way to buy them?  I assume it's to buy a group while they are juvies (recommendations of where to buy them?)
For quality... there's no substitute to Dan. He sells show quality stuff and may get a little pricey, but check in with him anyway his warehose is definitely worth a visit. Otherwise, three are some other good LFS's in town like Fish Ranch (rosenberg), Fish Ranch 2 (larkwood) & Fish gallery (lomitas)  that sell cheaper ones. If these are your first discus, i would stay away from wild stock.

If I buy them as juvies can they still go in a bigger tank and be grown up in it instead of growing them in a smaller tank and then moving them?
They should go in as large a tank as you can accomodate. Especially juvies. Larger tanks tend to maintain water quality a little bit longer, making it less likely to cause stunting. But note that large tanks are not a substitute for waterchanges.

Water changes: How do you do your water changes?  Do you age your water and bring it up to temp in garbage cans?
My aging drum is indoors so the temp doesn't get as cold as if it were outside, so i don't use a heater in it.
For Juvies, i do 30% everyday. But i feed beefhearts 3 times a day.
For adults, 30% every week.

Plecos, can you keep any of them with discus?  I was thinking we would get a 55g with 5 or 6 discus, a school of cardinals and I'd like a pleco or two if they can be kept with discus.
Plecos should be ok. But no Ottos! The might get eaten or even try to feed on the slime coat of the discus.
5 or 6 in a 55gal is ok. Make sure you go with larger cardinals (or even larger Neons). Anything that can fit into a discus's mouth will probably end up in it.

Where's the best place to buy food for them?
Good Flake and pellet food - any of your big box petstores will be fine.
Beefhearts - Hongkong market on bellaire =)

[wesleydnunder]

Re: Calling all Discus keepers!

Glad to see you looking at discus, Karen. I doubt you'll be less than happy with them.

Can you mix discus and if you do does it matter which types go together?
If you keep the popular hybrids you can pretty much mix and match as you like. Wild discus should be kept with others of their type.

What is the most inexpensive place/way to buy them? Â I assume it's to buy a group while they are juvies (recommendations of where to buy them?)
Juvies will be the least expensive way to go. As pointed out in earlier posts, they need pristene water and several feedings a day, so can be a little more work than adults. Dan usually has a great selection, and if he doesn't have what you want, can usually get it for you.

If I buy them as juvies can they still go in a bigger tank and be grown up in it instead of growing them in a smaller tank and then moving them? You CAN grow juvies out in a large tank. For novices, I reccomend growing juvies out in a bare bottom tank. A couple of reasons for this:
1) Bare Bottom is much easier to keep clean than, say, a fully planted display tank, plus it's easier for the juvies to find food on a bare bottom.
2) Once juvies become comfortable in their new home, they begin to establish a pecking order. The dominant fish will chase the subordinate fish away from the food. In a fully planted display tank, it's common to see a subordinate fish hiding behind some plants, and not getting any food. In a smaller bare bottom set up without hiding places the subordinate fish seem to have more access to food, and show better growth.
Juvies get daily 50% water changes, Adults get 50% partials every other day in my tanks.

Water changes: How do you do your water changes? Â Do you age your water and bring it up to temp in garbage cans?
I use a python and run from the tap directly to the tank. I temper the water at the tap before I close the valve and add Prime as I fill the tank. As mentioned, your fish will likely do fine in Houston tap water. Some folks insist on RO for their discus, I don't. In fact, studies have shown that juvies grow out better in harder water with a decent TDS than soft, low-TDS water.

Plecos, can you keep any of them with discus? Â I was thinking we would get a 55g with 5 or 6 discus, a school of cardinals and I'd like a pleco or two if they can be kept with discus.
I keep ABN and otos with my discus...never had a problem from either. I also have schools of cardinals, harlequin rasboras and green fire tetras with my discus.

Where's the best place to buy food for them?
Most lfs carry frozen blood worms, beef heart and brine shrimp. I make my discus food, usually about 6 months supply at a time and freeze. Discus need a varied diet. Frozen is good, but they also need vegetable matter and some form of vitamin supplememnt to help keep them from dietary deficiencies.

Read all you can, online and books. I suggest Bleher's Discus, the most complete book on the species I've read. Dan is also a ready resource and doesn't mind helping you as you go.

Good luck, Karen!

Mark

[thekarens]

Re: Calling all Discus keepers!

Thanks everyone for the info!

Mark, what kind of vegetable matter do they eat?  When you say vegetable matter I think of Nori due to my reefkeeping background and tangs :)

[wesleydnunder]

Re: Calling all Discus keepers!

Karen, my discus prep contains beef heart, fish, shrimp, spinach, carrots, zucchini, green beans, spirulina and multivitamins. The veggies are steamed before going in the food processor. I don't puree them, just chop fine to about 1/16 to 1/8 inch. After reading Bleher's Discus, Vol. 1 I started adding more veggies to the prep. In 40 yrs of studying discus, Bleher and his team found that during the dry season wild discus are mainly detritavores, picking detritus off the bottom. During the wet season when they move into the rain forest to spawn in the flooded trees they ate blossoms, shoots, leaves, etc., along with aquatic arthropods and arboreal insects. Many discus "experts" say that the discus is pure carnivore, but in the wild this has been proven to not be true. The wild discus is not even piscivorous and there is no documentation of a discus eating small fish.

Mark

[thekarens]

Re: Calling all Discus keepers!

Very interesting, sounds a lot like when we used to make our own fish food for our salt tank.  I'm going to have to check out that book.

Karen

[treehuggingfishlover]

Re: Calling all Discus keepers!

i am noooooo way an expert by any means....but this is my experience with discus

in the discus forum on here i have pics posted of them......

http://houstonfishbox.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=6538&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=50

so that's my story and i'm stickin to it.......

fishlady- your Discus are great.  They seem a bit high maintenance, but they're so beautiful in return :)

[treehuggingfishlover]

Re: Calling all Discus keepers!

Glad to see you looking at discus, Karen. I doubt you'll be less than happy with them.

Can you mix discus and if you do does it matter which types go together?
If you keep the popular hybrids you can pretty much mix and match as you like. Wild discus should be kept with others of their type.

What is the most inexpensive place/way to buy them? Â I assume it's to buy a group while they are juvies (recommendations of where to buy them?)
Juvies will be the least expensive way to go. As pointed out in earlier posts, they need pristene water and several feedings a day, so can be a little more work than adults. Dan usually has a great selection, and if he doesn't have what you want, can usually get it for you.

If I buy them as juvies can they still go in a bigger tank and be grown up in it instead of growing them in a smaller tank and then moving them? You CAN grow juvies out in a large tank. For novices, I reccomend growing juvies out in a bare bottom tank. A couple of reasons for this:
1) Bare Bottom is much easier to keep clean than, say, a fully planted display tank, plus it's easier for the juvies to find food on a bare bottom.
2) Once juvies become comfortable in their new home, they begin to establish a pecking order. The dominant fish will chase the subordinate fish away from the food. In a fully planted display tank, it's common to see a subordinate fish hiding behind some plants, and not getting any food. In a smaller bare bottom set up without hiding places the subordinate fish seem to have more access to food, and show better growth.
Juvies get daily 50% water changes, Adults get 50% partials every other day in my tanks.

Water changes: How do you do your water changes? Â Do you age your water and bring it up to temp in garbage cans?
I use a python and run from the tap directly to the tank. I temper the water at the tap before I close the valve and add Prime as I fill the tank. As mentioned, your fish will likely do fine in Houston tap water. Some folks insist on RO for their discus, I don't. In fact, studies have shown that juvies grow out better in harder water with a decent TDS than soft, low-TDS water.

Plecos, can you keep any of them with discus? Â I was thinking we would get a 55g with 5 or 6 discus, a school of cardinals and I'd like a pleco or two if they can be kept with discus.
I keep ABN and otos with my discus...never had a problem from either. I also have schools of cardinals, harlequin rasboras and green fire tetras with my discus.

Where's the best place to buy food for them?
Most lfs carry frozen blood worms, beef heart and brine shrimp. I make my discus food, usually about 6 months supply at a time and freeze. Discus need a varied diet. Frozen is good, but they also need vegetable matter and some form of vitamin supplememnt to help keep them from dietary deficiencies.

Read all you can, online and books. I suggest Bleher's Discus, the most complete book on the species I've read. Dan is also a ready resource and doesn't mind helping you as you go.

Good luck, Karen!

Mark

Do you think that homemade recipe would be good for any cichlid?  I've been thinking about making food for my Paratilapias....  Just curious on your thoughts.