Positivity

[HFBfounder]

Hi folks, I seem to have stirred up some reactions when I locked down that post earlier today. I said that if you're going to relate a negative experience, then you should give the owner a chance to make it right with you first. Let's talk about this if you're interested. My whole goal of this site is to keep it fun and nice. I hate nothing more than going to sites and seeing people being bashed. It stresses me out and makes me not want to be there. Also, it makes me not want to post for fear of being bashed myself. The bottom line is this: If you have a bad experience then fine. I would expect you to let us know about it, but I would also like to hear that you did everything in your power to give the people that wronged you a chance to make it right. If it's just a general feeling, then let us know about it. However, if you didn't get what you were promised, then you should take it up with them first, then let the world know about it afterwards. So, let's hear your take.  8)

[Cameo]

Re: Positivity

Here, here... I'm with you.  Although I must admit I think a lot of "bashing" is just to get one's goat - and it works!  That is what amazes me.  That people buy into it all and don't just ignore it.
Anyway, good on your thoughts.  Thanks for the sentiment and action.

[Ellen]

Re: Positivity

I agree that people need to be positive, but negativity also has a place. It shouldn't be that people are only allowed to relate their positive experiences.

I think people should be allowed to discuss their differences in opinion without dragging the store owner into it. I have no desire to go up to a perfect stranger to tell them what I don't like about the way they run their business, especially in their place of business. I don't think it should be a requirement for me to have to go talk to a business owner before I review their place. I don't feel a need to talk to anybody in the store because I wasn't 'wronged', it just wasn't the place for me.

I don't feel like I bashed anybody. I don't think that you have to bash people to disagree. I think we can all be adult enough to have a conversation with differing opinions without resorting to bashing.

I know lots of people love that store. There's got to be a reason for that, and because of ek's comment, I'd be more inclined to visit it again.

Ellen

[eklikewhoa]

Re: Positivity

There's no right without a wrong.

I feel that bad reviews are needed as good ones but I do agree bashing makes for a bad forum.

[Ramius]

Re: Positivity

Not to sound like I'm high or anything.. but..

There is a yin and a yang to things, out of the negative experience  that was posted, a positive experience resulted from the shop  keepers response, which in turn, led people (at least 1 person anyways) who would not normally have gone out of his way to give said shop his business, to find a way to go there now. Purely based apon the impressive response that he was given.

I agree, there should be no blatent harassment, but people should feel free to voice their opinions whether it be good or bad, as a warning or a blessing to others who might want to repeat/avoid a similar situation.

[JLawson]

Re: Positivity

When offering a review, I think the most important thing is to stick to the facts.  If the store actually smells bad then it should be OK for a review to say that the store smells bad.  If the tanks are dirty with floaters bobbing about then that needs to be included in a truthful review.  I wouldn't consider this bashing... it's objectively reporting the conditions as they were observed.

The same goes for interactions with the store personnel.  If it takes forever to be helped and then they're rude when they finally get around to noticing you then readers of the review should be told that.  If merchandise is not marked or miss-marked or if signage in the store is misleading then that should be reported.

As long as the reviewer sticks to the facts then he shouldn't be required to talk to anybody before reporting them.  When you read a restaurant review you're not burdened with a story about how the author went to the kitchen and discussed recipes with the chef... you're told about the wait staff, the service, the food, the ambiance, and the prices.  Why should it be different for a fish store?

[guppymax]

Re: Positivity

I missed it so I don't know what this one was all about. What I am about to say is ignorant of the last incident.

What people do not understand is that if you act stupid and say stupid stuff in a small group it can be overlooked and forgotten pretty easily. It is more difficult in a crowded room. Here on the internet that stupid stuff will be here forever for every one to read so everyone will know just how stupid you really are. Now I am going to go see how stupid it was and who said what. LOL

max

[HFBfounder]

Re: Positivity

Well, I don't think anything that was said was stupid. I have no problem with the facts. By all means, please let us know the facts. Great point. Honestly, I didn't think there was any bashing going on. I just didn't want it to devolve into that. As a matter of fact, my intention was not to bring that discussion up again, just to find out what your thoughts were on the negative reviews. Thank you all for your input. It's all great!

[SCOTT]

Re: Positivity

Positive and negative reviews are a fact of life I think. We need to try to remember tho that when giving a review we need to separate fact from personal views. If stating facts, then you are on solid ground and it's pretty hard to dispute the view you express. When stating opinion however, be sure to make clear it is an opinion. I have the opinion that Pecan Praline is the best ice cream ever made, does that make me right? Not to someone who loves plain old yucky vanilla, hehe.
Something else to keep in mind, cleanliness, odor, personality are all subjective. What might be filthy to you or me might be totally acceptable to the next person. Again, it's all subjective.
Anyway, just my 2 cents worth.

[Obed]

Re: Positivity

I tend to agree with the issues Scott brought up. If we are going to have reviews at all, there are going to be negative reviews from time to time. The person giving the negative review can be giving their honest opinion and still not affect my feelings about any particular lfs.
If I read the right thread that you locked it was on  the purchase of rock. I think someone was embarrased because the price of the rock was much more expensive than what they had thought. They simply did not understand the price marker on the rock, or how rock was priced. also comparing the price of rock that has been finished, cut to stand freely in the tank with rock that has not been cut, is not a fair comparisson.
Everyones taste on this kind of issue is different, I would not have the rock in my tanks if they paid me to take it home!
Personalities are different as well, I have a few lfs that I love to go to that have some employees that I will not deal with. If I go in and they ask if they can help me, I politely tell them I am waiting on who ever it is I normally deal with.
I don't think you should automatically eliminate negative reviews but they should be kept in good taste. I have over the years read some negative reviews that told me the person making that review did not know what they were talking about on the subject at hand and their  bad experience was just a result of their improper understanding. I have also read bad reviews that saved me time and money. Most of us who have been in the hobby for awhile, will be able to read the reviews and figure for ourselves which case it is. The only real problem I can see here is that you acccept lfs sponsors and if one of your sponsors gets blasted here, they may not want to continue sponsoring, so whether or not to allow negative reviews could affect the finances of this forum. That is a decission you will have to deal with.
If the reviews given have to make your sponsors happy, then we can not trust the reviews we read and maybe we should not have reviews at all.

[Ellen]

Re: Positivity

I think its very clear that what you write is an opinion. Everything is subjective.

People are always saying things like. "This room is filty." (Mom talking to a kid.) or "You need to give your stinky dog a bath." (Me to an old roommate.) In both of those cases, you KNOW that the person is stating an opinion. People don't walk around saying, "I think this room is filty." (At least my mom never did.) or "It is my opinion that your dog stinks and needs a bath." People just don't talk like that. I realize that the internet is much more ambiguous than the 'real world', but I think everybody is smart enough to read a review and know that a person wrote it as their opinion.

So, negative reviews, both of a person's opinions of a place or product and their 'hard facts' should be welcomed by everybody. All reviews have opinions in them. If you read a restuarant review, its going to have both the opinions of the person as well as some facts about the place. I've been to restaurants that I love that were reviewed badly. I've been to restaurants that I didn't like that were glowingly reviewed. Because everybody is different, people are going to have differing opinions.

Its not bad to disagree about opinions. It is a bad thing to jump on people for stating their opinionsor to tell somebody that their opinions are wrong.

Ellen

[daisymac]

Re: Positivity

The whole "smelly" thing gets me most. I do not like going into any stores that smell bad. I even avoid the clothing store Express because I think it has a bad smell. I have switched grocery stores because of a smelly fish market, or meat section. But that is just my preference.

There is another LFS in town that I think is a stinky mess and it is so bad that you can hardly breath in there, but a lot of the folks on this board shop there and recommend it, so . . . that makes me think twice before "bashing" it. I would NEVER think to approach the owner because I get the impression that this person would bite my head off, but others have spoken about this person as being a very amiable sort, so . . . did I just see it on a bad day, or two or three? I trust the folks that recommend it, and some of the stock in there looks great, some not so much, but I have bought from this place.

I think that we all have a right to disagree, but let's not be disagreeable about it when we do. And Ellen has a point - I can't tell you how many times I have eaten at a restaurant that had a glowing review and I HATED it. Different strokes and all.

[daisymac]

Re: Positivity

Ken, One more point - if the complaint had been posted in the retailers feedback would it still have caused a problem? Just a thought.

[HFBfounder]

Re: Positivity

Ken, One more point - if the complaint had been posted in the retailers feedback would it still have caused a problem? Just a thought.

Not so much. That's a better place for it. I would have moved it after I saw it, but I must admit, I didn't look at that topic after the first couple of posts.