There is a deer in my backyard! Make that TWO deer! *pics*

[Gene D]

Mzungu - there are certain standards that deer should achieve as they mature. When you manage your land you attempt to cull out those that do not meet the accepted standards in terms of age/ antlers. These inferioir specimens are called scrub or cull bucks. The concept is that you do not want inferior gentic stock to breed, as they will dilute/ contaminate the gene pool.

Antlers are measuered by by both number and spread. The spread being the distance between between the outside tines. Deer that have small/unacceptable spreads are called basket deer, as thier horns resemble a small basket. The numbers refer to how many tines are on the rack.

The entire coincept is to produce the best quality deer on your property by providing top quality nutriton in forage and allowing only the superior stock to reproduce.

It is somewhat similar to how you breed horses, cattle, chickens and even fish.

[lilmissruffcountry]

Mzungu - there are certain standards that deer should achieve as they mature. When you manage your land you attempt to cull out those that do not meet the accepted standards in terms of age/ antlers. These inferioir specimens are called scrub or cull bucks. The concept is that you do not want inferior gentic stock to breed, as they will dilute/ contaminate the gene pool.

Antlers are measuered by by both number and spread. The spread being the distance between between the outside tines. Deer that have small/unacceptable spreads are called basket deer, as thier horns resemble a small basket. The numbers refer to how many tines are on the rack.

The entire coincept is to produce the best quality deer on your property by providing top quality nutriton in forage and allowing only the superior stock to reproduce.

It is somewhat similar to how you breed horses, cattle, chickens and even fish.

+1..couldn't have said it better myself...basicly you want big strong stock, and no small weak stock...just like with fish!

[OrandaMan]

In the world of evolution, be careful what you call weakness.

There was this one animal that was very well adapted to its surroundings - surroundings which contained much prey and just as many predators. However, a certain set of circumstances allowed an isolated group of this species to lose much of what made them so successful in their niche in the first place. Random mutations made them begin to lose the protection and temperature control provided by their fur, their sense of smell began to atrophy as less requirement of it removed the specialization necessary to keep it up, and, worst of all, it wound up wasting most of its metabolism on walking upright, slowing them down and making them much more obvious to predators.

Yeah, the animal was the early ape. You know what happened to them.

[OrandaMan]

By the way, when I saw the thread from outside of the subforum, it said "there's a deer in my..." My first thought, of course, was to continue it with "beer, cause I'm cryin' for you, dear"

[Mzungu]

Thanks, guys. 8) But I'm wondering who or what deems these traits inferior? Are they somehow not able to survive as well without a certain amount of points on their antlers? Or is that a condition that humans value and therefore try to achieve? I'm truthfully asking this, not trying to be a devil's advocate or anything. Sorry, I know next to nothing about hooved mammals.

[Gene D]

Mzungu - It is largely done to benifit hunters. However it also an extension of the natural order. With most animals it is always the bigger, stronger, more colorfull, males who have thier choice of breedeing partners. There is a heirarchy by which bucks establish dominance in a herd.

Think of it in terms of a tank full of cichlids. There is awlays the dominant male along with several sub-dominants. The dominant male who displays the best color and confirmation will spawn with mutliple partners where as some of the inferior sub-dominants may never spawn at all.

In the aqurium in order to prevent non desirable males from breeding we remove the unnatractive specimens. With deer the undesirable specimen who has poor genetics is harvested to achieve the same effect.

[Mzungu]

But if it's allowed to occur naturally, won't the hot women deer choose the best looking males anyway, and the ones with the lesser antlers will be unable to spread their genes?

Especially if the hierarchy is able to function properly.

[Gene D]

Theoritcally, but you also have the issue of urban sprawl and overpopulation. The reason Complexity had deer in her yard is becuase humans are encroaching on thier land. The deer population is outgrowing the available land. Good management programs help to alleviate some of this.

[Complexity]

My first thought when I saw this thread was, "Oh, dear. I wonder how long it will take for someone to tell her to shoot and eat them..." :(

You guys exceeded my expectations, thanks! It didn't happen until hours after the first post.

I thought the very same thing! But every time I saw that little deer, all I could think of was Bambi!

[Complexity]

Well, I'm not shooting any deer. We have lived with them in the forest behind our house since 1993, and I see no reason to start shooting them now. I don't care if they're inferior. It's not my place to make that determination for a wild population. I'm not planning on keeping them in an aquarium or even in my yard.

Having said that, I'm not convinced this was a full grown buck. I had a full grown buck in my yard a week ago, and not only did he have a full rack of antlers, but he was much larger physically and he behaved differently (made some sort of noise at me and charged back and forth towards me as I walked towards him to convince him to go out the gate).

This buck was smaller in every way, not just his antlers. And the other deer with him was definitely young. I have no idea how old it was (it didn't have spots), but it wasn't full grown.

Either that or I have midget scrubs!

[cichlid1409]

But if it's allowed to occur naturally, won't the hot women deer choose the best looking males anyway, and the ones with the lesser antlers will be unable to spread their genes?

Especially if the hierarchy is able to function properly.

but then we wouldn't get to eat all that yummy venison. mmmmmm.

[blacksmith37]

All true,but the main point has not been mentioned: In the present environment the small antler/spike is the most sucessful buck - Hunters (the only serious preditor beside cars) select the large antler bucks, leaving the small ones (and does)to breed. Thus most areas have excessive deer populations with small antlers.
A few years ago I read that the "forrest service" (don't recall state or national) was devising programs to remove spike bucks.

[Gene D]

All true,but the main point has not been mentioned: In the present environment the small antler/spike is the most sucessful buck - Hunters (the only serious preditor beside cars) select the large antler bucks, leaving the small ones (and does)to breed. Thus most areas have excessive deer populations with small antlers.
A few years ago I read that the "forrest service" (don't recall state or national) was devising programs to remove spike bucks.

This is only partially true. Hunters will attempt to harvest the largest bucks. However most landowners/hunters have agreements to only shoot bucks above 8 points. This ensures that the next generation of quality bucks (with the spikes culled out) will be left left to breed further generations. The thoery being that the 6 pointers not harvested this season will shed thier antlers and become next seasons 8 pointers or perhaps bigger.

[Mzungu]

I'm still wondering why the bucks with larger antlers are superior to those with smaller antlers...

[Gene D]

Simple gentics. They are more desriable to both the female of the species and the hunter. Ensuring both (deer, humans) have more desirable specimens in the future